baby dies after father accidentally leaves baby in van.
Thanks to tifini for sharing with me this article about a father who accidentally left his baby in his van.
He was alerted by his wife at 3:30pm when she discovered their son was not at day care. It was already too late.
Even though police do not suspect foul play, Danny has now been book on suspicion of felony manslaughter.
I can’t help but feel for the family. What a terrible mistake to have to live with.
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103 opinions for baby dies after father accidentally leaves baby in van.
Lisa
Jul 27, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Okay, so I buy that you’re talking on the phone and forget to drop your kid off at daycare. But, after doing this for eleven months, who doesn’t glance at their car and see that big old car seat and say “. . .oh crap I’m going to be late because now I have to go all the way back to the daycare. . . ” My husband is a busy man (working as many as three jobs sometimes and no less than one anytime), and in two and a half years he has never forgoten our children anywhere ever. This is a bs excuse that parents use for murder.
Robot B9
Jul 27, 2007 at 4:00 pm
The article does not say if this guy normally dropped the baby off. Its easy to imagine a situation like this where someone could forget. But in any case this seems to be an honest mistake, one that he will live with forever.
Arlene
Jul 27, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I just don’t understand how someone could forget about their child in the car…..I have a 16 mo old who has always been quiet, laid back, & not fussy…..there’s no way I would forget about her. Before having my daughter, I was given tips on how to avoid such a horrible incident: keep a stuffed animal or toy in the front seat—most likely you will see it and it will remind you of your child and stay on a very personal basis with your daycare provider—have them call one of the parents or a family member if your child doesn’t show up for “school”.
Ihavekidstoo
Jul 27, 2007 at 5:33 pm
I agree with Arlene. I just don’t know how someone “forgets” the single most important thing in their lives - their baby. And I really don’t know how one goes on living after being responsible for a tragedy like this.
Michael
Jul 27, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Studies have show this isn’t any different than forgetting your wallet or other commonly forgot item as people go about their routines. Often times kids that are screamers get forgotten when they have the rare quiet day.
It’s also more likely to happen in larger vehicles and with cars seats. Yes, bad parents that let their kids crawl around unprotected in the car are not likely forget them.
I’ve never done it but I have forgotten my lunch inside my car and had it ruined. What must be understood is that it is the exact same psycological mechanism at play. Understanding that is key to solving the problem.
Mom of four, so far...
Jul 27, 2007 at 9:25 pm
I left my dd in the car once when I went to the health food store; I will sometimes take just one child when I go to the store on a weekend for a few items and leave the other three home with daddy, and sometimes I will go by myself. In this case, I took my baby dd, who was around six months at the time, and she fell asleep, thus was completely quiet. I got out of the van and went and grabbed a cart and as I got to the front of the store I remembered that she was with me and rushed back to the van and grabbed her out, unhurt, of course, because she had only been in the van for about five minutes. I was so horrified inside for awhile after that happened, though. I couldn’t believe that I could forget my baby was in the van. Like I said, thank God I remembered before I actually went into the store. And yes, I have a van with multiple carseats, obviously, as I have four children! :) Plus my baby sits behind the driver’s seat and is still rear-facing so I do not see her in the rearview at all.
Now even if I go out by myself I will turn around and look at every carseat in the van just to make sure I didn’t bring someone ;)
Also, when my first child was a baby, we were stationed overseas in Italy and I was on base getting ready to go into the commissary. It was July and over 100 degrees outside and I came *THIS* close to accidently locking her inside the car with the keys as I was getting everything out to go inside the store. She was two months old at the time. I saw the keys on the seat of the car as I was swinging the door shut and again I gasped in horror when I realized what I had almost done. Of course, if I HAD locked her in the car I would have called for help and found the nearest heavy object and smashed the window if I had to.
So I can totally see how someone could accidently do this, especially if they don’t usually take the child to daycare. I do think that people who KNOWINGLY leave their children in the car while they shop, play video games, get their hair done, whatever, ought to be shot. Try rolling up the windows once and sitting in your car with them up, it is NO JOKE. I tried this once just to see what it felt like and it felt like I was dying from the heat after five minutes. I can totally see how that can kill a child so quickly.
My heart does go out to the family that this happened to; even if it WAS an accident, what a terrible thing to have to live with :(
Ihavekidstoo
Jul 28, 2007 at 5:12 am
Sorry, but I don’t buy it. This is NOT like forgetting your wallet or car keys. This is a living, breathing being, one who is supposed to be the center of your existence. Would you forget to breath? Would you forget to eat? No. The problem is too many parents today take their children for granted, rather than seeing them as the precious, fragile gifts they are. If more parents were focused on the true value of their children, fewer would “forget” them, like their car keys.
Michael
Jul 28, 2007 at 5:39 am
I’m just stating the research psychologists and other researchers have done. People what have dedicated their lives to studying human behaviour and brain function. An angry knee jerk response does nothing to address the issue.
I did walk away from a vehicle one time in 11 years of parenting. I realized in about 5-10 seconds what had happened and was horrified.
My youngest is a screamer (from day one to now at 4 years later). I’ve been driving with him in the back and if he’s having a rare quiet day I freak out and think I left him at home.
As for keys I typically open the child’s door before closing my doors as a back up safety plan. I’ve trained myself to do that without thinking.
I supposed this is a case where having OCD could be a help.
Robot B9
Jul 28, 2007 at 5:55 am
Very well said “Mom of four”!
Lisa
Jul 28, 2007 at 6:39 am
mom of four,so far, well put. You say you have forgotten a time or two, but you realized within moments your mistake and corrected it. We all mess up sometimes. I just don’t buy that this man didn’t realize within moments. Even if he didn’t do this every day, your babies are not your car keys or your wallet. And I’m sorry Micheal, but my brain does not work that way. As a parent my number one priority is my children. You just don’t forget the most important thing in your life.
D.P.
Jul 28, 2007 at 11:17 am
http://www.katu.com/news/national/8783697.html
Interesting article about this subject.
Marion
Jul 28, 2007 at 11:44 am
I don’t buy it either. You just don’t forget your child. Subconscious wish fulfilment? Like maybe he had enough of raising a child and semi-consciously “forgot”. If you were drunk, or high, or had been up for 72 hours, MAYBE you might forget a child, but there’s no other reason. I love my children, I eat sleep and breathe my children, I would crawl on my lips through broken glass for my children. And I never even liked children much before! I have a horrible fear of locking them in the car, so I actually check myself verbally for keys before I get them out of the car. Parenting is vigilance, vigilance, vigilance.
BS to anybody who excuses this. It’s not just MANSLAUGHTER, as far as I am concerned, it’s MURDER.
Michael
Jul 28, 2007 at 11:48 am
Lisa, that is a dangerous assumption to make. You’re reacting to emotion and personal assumptions, not the science.
If we have a better of why this happens (and it’s not always because of bad parenting) we can do things to prevent this from happening.
Robot B9
Jul 28, 2007 at 1:09 pm
2 deaths, 2 outcomes…
http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/1645134/
Kathy
Jul 28, 2007 at 3:56 pm
When my daughter started at daycare, my husband ALWAYS dropped her off. I was so terrified of this happening because I had seen it the news so often, I always called him immediately at work to see how things went with the drop off. Did she fuss, was she ok. Did she get served breakfast etc. She’s 5 now, and I still do it out of habit.
I can see how this could happen and my daughter IS the center of my being. I guess that is why I became so vigilant on checking on up on my husband. A tragedy like this will tear you apart forever! The guilt would be way too hard for me to handle.
BUT at the same time, I don’t know how someone could forget almost the entire day! I just feel terrible for them.
Jason
Jul 28, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Here’s another one!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070729/ap_on_re_us/left_to_die
Jules
Jul 29, 2007 at 11:11 am
What a heartbreaking story! I don’t think the dad left his son in the car on purpose. If he doesn’t normally take his son to day care, and if he’s sleep deprived, as most of us parents are, he may have honestly forgot. Little ones sleep often in cars. They aren’t like older kids that make themselves known in the car. A helpful bit of advice for all parents of newborns and infants…put the diaper bag in the front seat of your car, place it where your briefcase, purse, lunch bag, etc. is to remind you that your child is in the car with you.
Amanda
Jul 29, 2007 at 4:55 pm
I can’t imagine what this family must be going through. What a horrible feeling. If the guy doesn’t usually drop off the baby and is very busy at work all day, then it probably was an accident. He obviously didn’t take a lunch break that required leaving in the car, which is too bad, because he may have realized in time! I don’t know what to think, but if it was an accident, he’ll still have to deal with this for the rest of his life along with the rest of his family. Undoubtedly his marriage is over! And if it was on purpose, he’ll meet his maker someday. How horrible!
Marion
Jul 29, 2007 at 6:37 pm
ENOUGH excuses! Insert the word “mother” instead of father and see if your feelings don’t change… Why are women held to higher standards??
Nobody FORGETS they have a child… and the child was not a newborn, so that lack of sleep thing doesn’t apply either. I have a four year old and a six month old… I don’t have a poop without checking to make sure they are safe AT ALL TIMES.
No more excuses, none! This man was a COMPLETE idiot. I’m only sorry twits like this are fertile.
UM????
Jul 30, 2007 at 5:47 am
My first question is…..WHO PUT THE BABY IN THE CAR??? Now, if his wife put the baby in the car and he rushed out and jumped in the car (like he does every morning when it’s just him we’ll say) as he kissed her goodbye and took his brown bag of lunch, hhhmmm, even then I don’t by the fact that you “forget” your child is in the car with you and after 6 hours later have to be reminded by your wife? If he put the child in the car on his own, even worse!! I really don’t buy people forgetting about their children, after all, this guy went to work and he remembered how to do his job there!!!! He does the same job everyday, so he remembers how to do that job, he has a child…..how can you forget the child and how to do THAT job??? Has our lives became that busy with work and making the almighty dollar that we can just so easily forget our job as a parent?? The man is 46 years old, was this their first child ever (never been around other children or have any others of their own)?? Or is he starting to show the beginning stages of Alzheimer’s Disease??
Something interesting I read in one of the articles that someone pointed out, it stated
“Since the mid-1990s, the number of children who died of heat exhaustion while trapped inside vehicles has risen dramatically, totaling around 340 in the past 10 years. Ironically, one reason was a change parent-drivers made to protect their kids after juvenile air-bag deaths peaked in 1995 - they put them in the back seat, where they are more easily forgotten.” My son is 16 years old, and as far as I can remember, kids were ALWAYS required to sit in the backseat in a carseat, when my son was born in 1991 they then (like they do today) walked out from the hospital with me on the day I was leaving with him to make sure he had a carseat and was being buckled in correctly, etc. So parents/drivers consciously made a safety change to the whole air-bag death scenerio, to protect their children, and now they forget their kid is even there?? I know as a responsible driver, your supposed to be checking your rear view mirror more then once as your driving down the road, surely you can’t see a big bulky car seat in a seat behind you?? If you can’t, then I would recommend getting a more family friendly car where the seats aren’t so big and there’s not so much space in the car where you can’t see who’s in your backseats!!!
Why has this gotten to be such a huge problem over the past several years….let’s take a look at one important part of that whole sentence……”one reason was a change parent-drivers made to protect their kids after juvenile air-bag deaths peaked in 1995 - they put them in the back seat, where they are more easily forgotten”…..ok, now we’re getting somewhere!! The problem is in the designs of the cars!!! Ok, so first off, car makers have contributed to parents forgetting about their kids being in the car….now we’ve got our starting point right? Then, let’s throw in the parent who likes to listen to their music loud….can’t hear the kid in the backseat or anything around you….ooppss, I forgot my kid! Now it’s 7 years later from the airbags, and what do we have now? CELLPHONES!! Yes, that’s right, we are now driving in phone boothes!!!! So, not only do we have a design flaw in the cars (airbags, high seats blocking our views, etc), but we have now turned our cars into phone boothes…oh but wait, there’s more!! Let’s put a tv in the car too, so that way the kid I’m going to forget about later can watch a movie while I talk on the phone all while we’re driving down the road in our portable death mobile that is completely designed all wrong!!
What a bunch of hogwash!! People always looking to blame others for their lack of responsibilty!! Why don’t we all ditch the cars then and go back to walking or horse/buggies??? Sounds like vehicles are doing more damage then good to not only our environment but to our lack of parenting skills! People are always looking for reasons as to why THEY failed in some aspect of their responsibilities!!
I do however find it ironic that no one at the daycare or even mom knew nothing about the baby until around 3:30? Where was mom at the entire day? Excuses, Excuses, Excuses….go buy some ginko biloba and take it…it helps to improve memory!!!
UM????
Jul 30, 2007 at 6:05 am
Something else that came to mind…..maybe as citizens the rest of us should be sure to look in cars as we’re walking around the parking lots…I do….if I see a carseat, I peek to see if it’s empty!! I’d rather have someone think I’m looking in their car at what they own then to have a child sitting there going unnoticed! Also, put a picture of your child on your dash…..I keep a picture of my kids tucked under the dash close to my speedometer….you can take a regular sized picture and have it made smaller, or you can go to one of those little photo booths that are in most malls (that the teenagers all like to crowd around), take a pic of your kids together in the booth, and the nice thing…those boothes even print the pictures out as stickers!! You could also put a pic of your kid in the corner of your rear view mirror if you don’t want to put it on your dash. I also have a stuffed bear my son gave me years ago sitting on my dash….when I look at it, it reminds me of my children, and I’ve found that after looking at the bear even briefly, I ALWAYS end up looking in the mirror to check on my daughter in the backseat!! People know if their forgetful, they know how they are when they get tired, etc, they should be taking measures to remind themselves and be more conscious of their actions and preparing themselves…..If I think I’m going to forget something in the morning when I leave, say a shirt I need to take with me, I will either put the shirt on top of my purse (because I don’t leave without my purse ever!), or I will lay it on my driver’s seat, so when I come out in the morning, I remember it!! I just don’t think there’s really any excuses for not being more responsible with your actions, no matter how tired or stressed out or how busy you are!! You know yourself better then anyone else, so you should be doing whatever possible to make yourself remember most importantly your children!!
miajemell
Jul 30, 2007 at 8:08 am
I can honestly see how this may have been a tragic mistake on dad’s part. I know he feels absolutely horrible! I feel for the dad and the family of the baby…most of all I feel for the baby! My mom forgot me once when I was a baby and she felt horrible about it. Atleast she was woman enough to tell me about it when I got older. I admire her for that because I know she felt awful. But I know how it can be an honest mistake to forget about your baby especially if they are quiet babies. This dad’s daily routine didn’t consist of him taking his baby to daycare everyday hence I can see how he forgot. It’s sad that this happened to the baby and the family…..may God be with them all!
YouKnowThaDeal
Jul 30, 2007 at 8:29 am
I sent you this one also
it happened where I live. Glad that you put it up here. I don’t care if you normally take your kid to day care or not there is no sane reason to forget about a child. Especially a baby.
Shell
Jul 30, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Soon there will be no more excuses - if these get manufactured as standard for all autos - I especially like the last two (The first one would be just annoying cuz car seats usually stay buckled in all the time)
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife/07/24/left.to.die.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
Bree.
Jul 30, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I personally dont know how to react to this. I dont think he should be let off scott free, no matter how much he says he feels badly about his little accident. I mean, I remember my mom driving us to school before work once and we where all pretty quiet and she accidently started taking us to work, but we where MUCH older (12, 10, and 8) and she turned around and took us to school…But I dont know how some one can just forget to stop and drop the kid off at daycare. Or why it wouldn’t occure to him all day that the baby was in the car. Or n oone walked by and saw this………..I am glad he has to live with this his whole life, because maybe if there is a next time, he’ll remember theres a little some one in the back seat.
miajemell
Jul 31, 2007 at 8:18 am
It’s not even about him forgetting he has a baby…It’s about the fact that his DAILY routine didn’t consist of taking his baby to daycare every day…maybe even hardly once since the baby was old enough to start daycare. I am in NO WAY defending his action, because I believe he should be punished for it. I am merely offering an objectional point of view that maybe he truely did forget about dropping the baby off that morning. We are human and sometimes we forget. I know he has to feel absolutely mortified about it and that in itself if he has a soul and emotions is punishment enough. Otherwise if he shows no emotion behind what happened….then let justice prevail and let his ass fry in hell………
People shouldn’t be so quick to judge and make it seem like it’s intentional and pursecute him. His mind is doing that for him….but most importantly GOD all knowing has the final say. Only God knows what’s in that mans heart. I personally don’t get the vibe that it was intentional. But if I am wrong then may his ass be put under the jail.
Ange
Jul 31, 2007 at 8:27 am
Ok It wasn’t a child, but I have a relevant story to relate about forgetting stuff that SHOULD be impossible to forget…
Please keep in mind I am normally a reasonably intelligent human being. I am a caring mother. Despite my significant mental health issues I never lost my three toddlers ANYWHERE. And they were all three toddlers at the same time.
So, long term friend of ours came to visit one night. I was driving him home, it was across town. I exited the freeway probably 5 traffic lights from his house.
We were enjoying the drive, having a nice conversation when I got to the third light, flipped a u-turn, and proceeded to re-enter the freeway.
He looked at me, absolutely stupified, and asked me what the hell I was doing. Apparently I wasn’t taking him home! Obviously I turned immediately around and dropped him at home.
Please believe I was not innebriated in any way, I am not normally such a dumbass, but we all have our moments. I guess I am just lucky mine wasn’t at the grocery store as I got out of the car, leaving the baby behind.
Please also remember, that i was HAVING A CONVERSATION with this person, as i failed to remember to return him to his home!
I am certainly not saying what this father did was ok. I do suspect that it was an accident, but don’t know for sure. I’d like to hear the evidence at his trial.
Which brings me to the other point I wanted to make. My kids are all grown. I raised them with the concept that society has certain expectations of you. One great example is we all must pay some form of rent.
If you don’t pay your rent the landlord can’t pay his bills. The landlord doesn’t care why you coldn’t pay, whether it’s a true tragedy or some bullshit excuse, the fact remains, you didn’t reach societies expectations. In return, you pay a price.
I feel that tragic circumstances should hold SOME weight. I feel that people are human, and bound to err. But I feel we must balance that compassion with the understanding that we all have to do our part. Financially, socially, and in a responsible caregivers sense.
I feel he should go to trial, and that he should be judged on his overall behavior. None of us should pass judgement on him until we know where he’s been. Even then, we should pass JUDICIAL judgement and nothing more.
After all, don’t we all have our moments of ultimate stupidity? Maybe your stupidity has better timing than his?
miajemell
Jul 31, 2007 at 8:53 am
I agree with you Ange….as for the whole grocery store comment….that happens to be the exact situation with my mom when she forgot me….LUCKILY she didn’t even get out of the parking lot before she remembered. I wouldn’t call her a dumb ass for forgetting…..she just wasn’t used to taking us (me or my brother) with her to the grocery store. We stayed with our neighbor or grandma during those trips mostly. She knew we were hungry and was rushing to get back home and she simply forgot me in the midst of her rushing home to make sure we eat. In big way you are right NO ON SHOULD forget their children but sometimes it happens when you are worrying or rushing for one reason or another.
UM????
Aug 1, 2007 at 5:01 am
it’s funny, everyone is stating that this was just a horrible accident, do we really know for sure? Maybe this guy is really good at lying and covering his tracks? We’ll never truely know because we can’t tap into his mind! But, let’s play devil’s advocate here….what if…..
In the story, let’s say it says that dad forgot to take the baby to daycare, and of course, it died in the car. Let’s add to this story that dad had been up most of the night partying with some new clients for his company (this is not unheard of please keep in mind!), and dad was really trying to land that big contract for the company, so of course, the partying was pretty intense, and come morning, he’s still somewhat drunk feeling and hung over because he didn’t get but maybe 2 hours of sleep, so unknown to his wife, he snorts a line of coke to wake up. Mom comes in and says he has to take the child to daycare, she has a doctor’s appointment and can’t do it. Then the scenerio plays out where the child is forgotten, dad is at work haming it up with his coworkers over the night befores events, they got the contract, hurray, all is wonderful at work! child now dead, dad finally remembers after phone call from mom, now what?
My point…..if the story had other contributing factors thrown into it, things that would have contributed to dad’s forgetfullness…ie the alcohol, lack of sleep and drugs in his system…..All of you who are sitting here saying this is just a horrible accident would now be pounding the pavement wanting this man’s head on a stick!
Robot B9 above gave a perfect example of this in this story….
http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/1645134/
One father totally forgot about his kid and nothing happened to him, the other father remembered the child and was checking on the child, but now sits in prison. Sound fair?? Or go read the other blog entry that talks about the mother leaving her baby in the car overnight during a major storm, WITH THE WINDOWS AND SUNROOF OPEN!! I bet all of your comments are bashing the mother in that story!
My point?? Just because someone comes across sincere and morseful for thier actions doens’t always mean their innocent! Maybe the father is really good at giving a different impression, but truely didn’t forget about the baby…maybe the baby was annoying to him (after all, he was 46 years old, who wants to be dealing with baby at that age??), maybe he was too career oriented and not really a family man, who knows, how does someone not remember for 6 full hours about their child being in their car??? Surely this father had pictures of his kid/wife on his desk that would have reminded him?? Surely someone at work would have asked how the baby was doing (people in offices always ask, especially women, babies are cute, etc!) or asked about his wife??? Is this father so self-absorbed that his wife and baby NEVER come to mind throughout the day?? Please, I have a hard time believing that, and if that’s the case, then maybe this was a blessing in disquise and his wife should consider getting a divorce, because if he’s so self-absorbed, then he’ll never be father material, and probably isn’t much in the “husband material” area as well! Sorry, there is just no excuse for this, if he had forgotten him for an hour, okay, that might be a valid claim, BUT FOR 6 HOURS, 6 hours where no thought of his baby or wife came to mind (it’s not like he went to sleep, he was at work!)??? That I have a hard time believing!! As far as I’m concerned, same punishment should be handed down to everyone, whether it was a mistake or not, if your baby dies, then the punishment should be harsher, after all, maybe using these people who always “forget” their kids and their kids die in a car as an example to everyone else, maybe people would be less likely to “forget” their kids in the first place!!
miajemell
Aug 1, 2007 at 5:54 am
OK…no need to go over board with this because….for one the media just loves to make bad people look worse so I am sure if ANYTHING of the sort was known or had happened…I’m sure it would have come to light in the story at some point all because the media loves to make a bad situation look worse. I don’t believe he did it on purpose and no I don’t personally know him, but something deep down inside says to me that he just made a terrible mistake and it is what it is. All we know is what was stated in the media this far about the man and the situation at hand. So lets not go on a tangent trying to put together facts that are non-existant. Not saying it couldn’t have happened but I’m sure if it did we would all know. I’m sure this guy had to have been tested for drug and alcohol usage and I’m sure that we would know about the results of that report, I mean come on there’s a child involved a dead child. I’m sure the media would take pleasure in airing him out. Lets not ADD to a story but go by what we do know……..We are human and sometimes we forget….in his case it’s a shame it cost his baby’s life.
Ange
Aug 1, 2007 at 6:03 am
To Ummm?
I agree, judgement should be reserved until the facts are heard by a jury. And tragedy or not, he should be going to court to have it decided.
I quote from my previous post on the matter,
“I am certainly not saying what this father did was ok. I do suspect that it was an accident, but don’t know for sure. I’d like to hear the evidence at his trial. ”
In reference to your question about moral outrage. Yes, had drugs, or partying been a contributing factor, there would be more outrage. It’s one thing to err as a human, but another to contribute to your err (in taking care of your children) by creating situations that deteriorate your ability to make choices (and remember things) when you’re responsible for the care of another.
May give the same results, but your conscious choices have an impact.
Lisa
Aug 1, 2007 at 6:42 am
D.P., interesting article; it gave some insight into this horrible situation.
Michael, you may be right, but I forget my wallet, my keys, my phone ect. on a daily basis (I need to teach myself to do the trick I learned for the car before I leave the house). Not once in over 2 years have I forgotten my children. My father taught me to do a once over on the car interier every time I leave (at the time it was so I didn’t leave my wallet or keys), so after years of doing this it is ingrained in my behavior. I don’t even think about it any more, I just do it. I understand that busy people forget, but as a parent you have to make it your number one job to protect your children (even if it is from you).
miajemell
Aug 1, 2007 at 7:08 am
You are right Lisa and that is a very good idea…too bad there aren’t more people in the world like you that just don’t forget your children.
In no way am I condoning thoughtlessness when it comes to a child but at some point or another the REALITY is that it happens. If it happens alot is a different story. Yes all it takes is one time to forget and anything can happen, but people are human and we do forget no matter what it is. MEMORY is not perfect….Only God is….and when he calls someone home it doesn’t matter how it happens he’s gonna bring them home.
YouKnowThaDeal
Aug 1, 2007 at 7:31 am
If this wasn’t part of his normal routine then he should’ve remembered it even more. If there is something out of the ordinary in your day you usually focus on it. I think he forgets too much like maybe he did or does drugs cause there is no way in hell I’d ever forget about my baby in my car. Shit even if I was on drugs, the child is your life, treat them as your blood. And that’s it!
miajemell
Aug 1, 2007 at 8:01 am
AGAIN HUMANS ARE NOT PERFECT!!! People are so quick to say “I WOULD NEVER” First of all you don’t know what you would never do! Secondly, there is no evidence this man was on drugs or alcohol so again LETS NOT add more to a story than what is. For the record just because you say that you HAVE NOT….doesn’t mean you WILL NOT….there are alot of people that say I have not and will not have a baby….but end up pregnant or getting someone pregnant. There are people that say I will never forget to use birth my control but end up getting pregnant because they forgot and missed one pill inadvertently thinking they already took it. COME ON NOW…..The situation is sad enough as it is….this man is going through the worst thing imaginable and not to mention he will be punished as well and I agree he should be, but his forgetfulness is going to bring him a life time of pain on top of a hefty punishment in court. Who are we to judge when any one of us as human beings could make the same mistake?
Bree
Aug 1, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Its so odd, I didn’t know what to think of this at first. I looked over the article and the comments and two things came to mind.
Numero uno being, People leave things in cars all the time. I left my homework and all my cds and ipod in my car, just to have it stolen back in high school…….But KIDS aren’t items. If you forget your sunglasses or wallet, something small, its a little oopsy. But how absent minded could you be to leave a child in there for hours to die a slow painful death.
And another thing I remembered, Number two, was watching I think CSI and this couple left their infant in the car in 100+ degree heat to kill him because they where worried he had a disease like his older brother did (who had died of natural causes)….
Im capable of losing keys. phones. bottles. pacifiers. homework. files on the computer. hairties. brushes. Unimportant things.
But forgetting something as hugely important in my life as my child…….come on now.
UM????
Aug 2, 2007 at 5:16 am
miajamell….I was in no way adding to the story and making it sound worse…..I WAS MAKING A POINT! I don’t know this man, so I have no idea what he is like everyday at home or work. BUT, if you had gotten my point, I DO have a hard time believing that this man had not one single itsy bitsy thought for 6 full hours about his baby? or even his wife? Think about it…..we all sit at work and at some point throughout the day think about our children or our spouses, and when we think of someone, what does that do? THAT SPARKS OUR MEMORY! Again, for 6 full hours this man not once thought about his wife (which would have made him think of the baby) or his baby?? There was nothing in his head, no conversations with fellow co-workers, no overheard remarks, etc, by others that he overheard, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that sparked this man’s memory that his baby was in the car?? Again, sounds like he’s either too self-absorbed, was asleep the entire day at work, or he is having an affair on his wife and was too busy banging someone, left the baby in the car while doing so, came out and found the baby dead and then went on to work like nothing had happened!! Do you see my point?
When you forget your keys to the car, what happens?? You get to your car and can’t get in, then duh, I forgot my keys. When you forget your wallet, you get somewhere where you need and duh, I forgot my wallet! See my point? There’s always something there that jolts the memory, and obviously this man’s memory must not be completely shot to hell and back because he went to work and remembered how to do his job! Again, I would love to hear more about this, because I really do feel there is more to this story, and no, we may not hear about it considering it sounds like this man has some money and is obviously one of the “well off” kind of people….at least as far as I’ve seen there’s been no pics of this guy, and I haven’t heard anymore about the story! That’s usually the case with the “well off” kind of people…their stories kind of disappear and we dont’ hear anymore about it! If anyone has any updates or links to updates on this, I would love to see them!
miajemell
Aug 2, 2007 at 9:04 am
UMM??? & BREE
AGAIN….in NO WAY am I condoning his forgetfulness but simply stating that very often when someone becomes so used to the norm or things that are very routine it is very difficult for the mind to change gears. UMM??? Yes I did get your point about forgetting “THINGS” but unfortunately that is not the point I was making. I can understand forgetting “THINGS”. Even if he was self absorbed…the reason being is because he was so used to the NORM and his ROUTINE that his mind simply was programmed into his regular day. Maybe he has the type of job and family security that he didn’t feel a need to worry about his wife and baby in which he is wrong for underestimating that fact that he will see them when he gets home everyday. Yes that would definitely be his fault for taking life for granted and expecting to see his wife and kid when he got home. You never know what kind of arrangements he and his wife made as far as their child was concerned on a day to day basis. Maybe he has a short term memory issue somewhere…who knows? Or for example….one day you are cleaning the house just as you normally would and because you are such a good parent you always put the cleaners away (out of the reach of children) and your house is child proofed but this time you forget one bottle of wood polisher and it’s somewhere inconspicuous to your eyesight…..you leave the house to go get your baby from daycare and you return home. you head strait for the living room to put down the baby and your keys and bag or wallet not knowing you left the bottle of furniture polish out….then the baby gets to it and ingests some of it….then what? I guess that is on purpose too right? Or what if your mom asks you to pick her up from work…now she never has had to ask you to do that before because she has her own vehicle but something happened and she needed a ride from work when you get off. But because you are thinking somewhere in the back of your mind that your going strait home as usual….u forget to pick her up. Then when you get home you have a messege from your furious mom asking where the heck you are because you were supposed to pick her up from work. So you see I can understand how he may have forgotten and even in as long of a period as he did. His mind was on auto pilot. In the midst of his day somethings may have surfaced in his memory about his wife and kid but because his daily routine was so embedded that he was thinking it was a normal day until his wife called and said “where’s the baby”? Then he goes OH SHIT….you did ask me to take the baby to daycare today….maybe the dad didn’t load the baby in the van and that could also be an attributing factor in why he may have forgotten. Who knows. I’m simply saying I can see how things are from both sides. If he did do that to his baby intentionally then he’s gonna be a VIP guest at Satan’s backyard BBQ….
Bree
Aug 2, 2007 at 12:26 pm
I might be the only person to LMAO in one of these discussions (and believe me I am sure its completely out of place in such a forum…)
But LMAO, satans backyard bbq…..im so using that!
Kisu
Aug 2, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Well put, Miajemell.
Nothing is really known other than the baby died. :s How can we condemn without absolute proof?
Condemning without proof is just as bad as forgetting a child…I’m not saying he’s innocent or guilty. I can’t. There’s no proof either way.
Miajemell said “People are so quick to say “I WOULD NEVER” First of all you don’t know what you would never do!”
Absolutely right…We can always claim that we would never do something…But that claim pertains to doing something consciously. There is not an adult in this world who hasn’t done something wrong–something they were horrified by because they thought they never would.
Lots of people have memory problems. :/ It’s really not unheard of for people to forget major things. Just because you have perfect or average memory skills doesn’t mean everyone does.
Maybe he never would have knowingly done something like this. Obviously something changed that, we just don’t know what.
We can all guess at make conjectures all we want. But our guesses don’t serve as evidence; for the love of human decency, keep your different opinions, but don’t jump at each other’s throats for them.
JIM
Aug 2, 2007 at 4:06 pm
http://www.apopularitycontest.com/my_poll.php?ID=5760
Stop Breeding!!!!!!!!!!!!1
miajemell
Aug 3, 2007 at 5:54 am
Yeah, I really believe that this guy just made a horrible mistake….Something deep down just says to me that he is feeling just mortified about it. The mind works in mysterious ways. With that being said so does God. He never made any of us perfect and we must think about that.
Thanks Kisu=)
There’s alot of bad parents on here that I’m sure will be the first to arrive at Satan’s crib for his eternal damnation cookout….lol! But their asses belong there based on solid evidence and proof….
I wouldn’t want to persecute someone for a freak accident or a mistake that was unintended….I am no judge but perception is critical.
Rachel
Aug 3, 2007 at 6:48 am
Leaving your baby in the car for 6 hours is not something anyone reasonable can attribute to “forgetfulness” …. Ive read a few examples you people have written about this and that a person could accidently do wrong to endanger a child .. but 6 hours????? Come on … Was he high or something? I guess we are to suppose he goes all day without even one wandering thought as to his wife or child .. because if he thought about that baby one time there is no reason why it wouldnt click that he LEFT IT IN THE CAR!
Also, I dont have kids so I dont have daycare experience, but is it common practice for daycares to call and check on kids who dont show up like schools do? Or, to put it in other words, are you supposed to call the daycare if your kid is sick or something and is not going to show up? Because if so, you’d think they would have heard from the daycare before 3:30…
miajemell
Aug 3, 2007 at 9:31 am
It is very much possible that he may have forgotten in those 6 hrs. Just because of how the mind works. If you are used to a routine and you perform that same routine constantly eventually over time it will be difficult to break it like a habbit. This routine becomes 2nd nature. Like I said and will continue to say I am not condoning his thoughtlessness….but I do however see how it is possible for him to have forgotten.
Rachel……… you are absolutely right about the whole daycare thing….I used to run a daycare and YES it is a rule to call parents WHENEVER a child does not show up…unless the parents have called in first to notify the caregivers about the childs absence. This is very true.
Scientifically from some studies on the brain that I have read it is very much possible for the father to have accidently forgotten and for 6 hours. He was so used to just getting up and going to work EVERYDAY that his mind was already preset in that mindframe anyway. The one time his wife may have asked him to drop the baby to daycare was out of his normal routine. Like I said maybe he didn’t put the baby in the car, maybe his wife did thus adding to the cause of him not remembering. All you can do is speculate here. There are little known facts. Even though he may have thought about his wife and baby throughout the day he probably thinks of them everyday but because he’s so used to the baby already being at daycare and the wife being at work or wherever he was probably still thinking in that frame of mind until he got the call and he snapped out of it….OMG!! You did ask me to drop the baby off to daycare! The one thing that was out of the norm but was so huge of an impact to his day. His repetitive daily routine was so embedded that he simply forgot.
Like I said before if the justice system comes to the conclusion that it was no accident…may GOD have mercy on his soul…
UM????
Aug 3, 2007 at 11:55 am
mia, I see what your saying, but I still don’t completely buy that thought! Reason being…..if he was so wrapped up in this daily routine of his, even more the reason then that this should have stuck out in his mind, because it was so out of routine that he would be wanting to make sure he didn’t “mess it up” so to speak. My children and I are on the same schedule EVERYDAY, about the only thing that changes with that schedule is what we eat for dinner when I get home from work. When say for example……I have to stay at home one day because my child is sick, my mind registers the fact that this is now out of the “normal” routine/schedule that we do everyday, and I find I usually tend to remember alot more from that day then I remember on days when we are on our “normal” routine/schedule. Yes, I know people have bad memories, etc, but not that bad that you would even completely forget about your child for 6 or more hours? Our mind works in a way that say for example…..your following your regular routine/schedule that morning, your sitting at work and completely involved in a meeting, or getting something done and lunch rolls around….but your still stuck in what your doing, concentrating really hard on….but then, you catch the scent of someone’s lunch…..and although it’s 1/2 hour past what time you usually go to lunch, your subconscious picks up the signal and sends it to your conscious…hey, it’s lunch and you haven’t ate yet….and you suddenly remember to go eat. This may not be a very good example but I hope you get what I’m trying to say…..the slightest little thing would be just enough to make someone (no matter how bad their memory is) either remember something completely or make them think hey, I was supposed to remember something, which then would make them at some point remember! So again, even if this was out of the norm for him, his mind would have gone even further to make him remember by the slightest reminder, unless of course he had the memory part of his brain removed!
I really wish we could hear more about this one, get an update, something, but of course this guy was also not your typical type of poor person, I have yet to see his face (although when it’s your “normal, low income” type of person, you’ll see their picture plastered everywhere, etc!), and since he can afford an attorney and the attorney is doing all of his interviews, etc, for him, for all we know this could be Brad Pitt we’re talking about and we’d never know it! Like I said before, and I’ll say it again, whether you meant to do it or not, whether it was an accident or not, you did it, therefore you should do the time for the crime, just like everyone else! There’s no consistancy in our system between the classes, after all, the McCanns (I know, their not in our country but it proves my point…)left not 1 but 3 children alone in their room, 1 is now missing, and no one even bothered to charge them with endangerment, although if one of us simple poor folk did that, why they’d have our head on a stick and would lock us up for a few years, no matter whether we meant to do it or not!
miajemell
Aug 3, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Umm?? I see your point and I wish more people were like that when it comes down to being able to remember every single detail in a day. Fact of the matter is EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. Somethings that you are capapble of doing or not doing the next person may or may not. Different strokes for different folks. U said the key word Umm??? Which was “SHOULD HAVE” triggered something in his memory to remember his baby but the FACT still remains that it didn’t. Scientifically speaking “should have triggered” is not a DEFINITE….only a possibility. THE BRAIN IS NOT PERFECT. Yes this man will be severely punished for his thoughtlessness. I am saying we shouldn’t be so quick to persecute when we don’t know the facts. With a case like this you would have to be biased because there is ZERO proof of it being an accident or intentional. I am looking at things from a scientific side to this because there has to be some logical explanation for WHY he’s saying he forgot, so I wanted to explore the fact that just maybe he really did forget and WHY his memory process of someone so important was so short. The only thing I can see is the study of the Basal Ganglia (part of the brain that deals with routines and pattern memory processes). For example: my days are very routine (because I hate disorganization) so I was supposed to go to get my dog from the vet one afternoon because I had dropped him off the night before and they told me to pick him up the next afternoon. But because I was so used to him ALWAYS being at home (I temporarily forgot that entire day that he was in the hospital and was thinking about him being at home) that I drove strait home. You see I was so used to going strait home and getting him ready for a walk and feeding him that it slipped my mind that he was not home he was at the vet. I was so used to him being well because he had not been sick before that the only thing I thought about when it came down to him was me havign to take him for a walk and feeding him. I get home and I’m like “OH snap” Chip’s at the vet! My routine was so embedded in my Basal ganglia that it was the only thing stuck in my mind and not the fact that he was at the Vet. I guess that makes me a bad pet owner? huh? When I love him so much! In no way am I trying to sway your position because your opinion is yours. I definitely see where you’re coming from with it for sure and I agree, but it’s only on one side of the fence. I see from both.
Kisu
Aug 3, 2007 at 3:05 pm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19983159/
“Family members said Danny Takemoto is a computer engineer at Siemans and has worked at the company for about 15 years. Danny Takemoto was under a lot of stress at work lately, spending up to 15 hours a day at the office, according to family members.”
15 hours a day at the office frequently…That can fry someone’s brain, especially for a computer engineer. I tinker with my computer at home, simply digging the HTML, PHP, and basic computer functions. Four hours alone tends to make me brain dead.
It’s certainly not an excuse, but it is definately understandable that the mind can get totally screwed up after so much work.
Kisu
Aug 3, 2007 at 3:09 pm
And…
http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/localnews/ci_6467739
“The child had remained in a reverse-facing safety seat for six to seven hours while his father was at work. An autopsy today was inconclusive, pending completion of toxicological tests and tissue samples, including whether the child had any health problems, Chilimidos said.”
“”They’re devastated right now,” said a family member who identified herself on by her first name, Cecille. “Danny’s a very good father, he’s a soccer dad,” she said. “He’s a good person.
The couple has two daughters, 8 and 12, she said.”
Kisu
Aug 3, 2007 at 3:52 pm
More! On the subject of changing schedules, too:
“Danny Takemoto had a routine. For four months, he usually took his 11-month-old son, Ian, to a Pleasant Hill day care center at 8 a.m. before heading to work at a Concord medical equipment company.
But on Tuesday, Takemoto, 46, arrived at Baby Steps Infant and Toddler Care shortly before 9 a.m., telling staffers that his schedule had changed for the rest of the week and that he’d be taking his two daughters to soccer practice first before arriving with Ian, employee Haseena Dawud said. ”
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/27/MNG9GR85OI1.DTL&tsp=1
From this, I gather he had dropped his daughters off and forgot about his son? He could have been running late.
If he’s spending 15 hours at his office, I’m assuming he’s getting very little sleep. When the mind is direly deprived of what it needs…Well, as they say, “shit happens”. :S
Interesting stuff, so far. The autopsy is still on-going. Given the information so far, I’m more inclined to believe that this was truly a grave result of a mental slip up.
YouKnowThaDeal
Aug 6, 2007 at 8:26 am
miajemell sure got a lot to say
whatever I know I would never leave my son anywhere without knowing where he is. NEVER and if you don’t like that word too bad cause I said NEVER. I’m not that stupid. I made a commitment to keep my child safe, and that means responsibility. Screw a mental slip up, screw forgetting because things are out of the ordinary, Screw the excuses we have for this man we don’t even know. This child is dead all because the father didn’t do his job !period! So sad that some people have to stick up for the accused all the time fair this fair that like I said screw that
he lost fair when he left the baby and it passed away.
RIP baby
at least some people are thinking about you !
Kathy
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:12 am
I think it is possible to think about the baby, feel that the father should be held responsible for his actions AND feel empathy for the father. My husband works many hours like this man did, but he has me to remind him. AND we only have ONE child to care for. I do not believe this man intentionally murdered his baby. I do believe that he should be held responsible, but I do feel for him and his family. His other children have lost a sibling and now they will probably lose their father to prison. Its a no win situation.
UM????
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:20 am
Kisu, thanks for the updates!
Several things come to mind…..first off it states “an autopsy of Ian that was conducted earlier Thursday didn’t determine a cause of death and the cause of death is still pending”, I’m pretty sure when it’s a case of a baby frying in a car that they can tell that pretty quickly when doing the autopsy, because everything inside the body “cooks” and is obvious when the body is opened. I’m confused on why the cause of death would still be pending (plus the fact that they left this open in case of further charges needing to be pressed against him) if it was as simple as the baby “cooking” in the car! And toxocology tests? Again, I wouldn’t think they would do those if it was obvious that the baby died from the heat in the car!! Still sounds like everyone involved in the investigation is still suspicious, like I am!
Also, the only thing that changed out of his daily routine (because he said he dropped his baby off everyday on his way to work, so dropping the baby off was habit!!) was that he had to drop his daugher’s off! Now again, surely while his daughter’s were getting out of the car, they would have been telling the baby bye (most girls especially would be doing this, because that’s how young girls are…they find babies cute and fascinating!), etc, so honestly, if he would have forgotten about dropping anyone off, wouldn’t it have been his two daughters since they weren’t part of his “normal daily routine”? Sorry, but this just blew the whole theory of “dropping the baby off was out of his routine which made him forget” theory out the window, because he dropped his baby off EVERYDAY! And being sleep deprived, yeah, I’ve been there, done that, but again, if what is wife is saying is true about him working so hard, then couldn’t she have helped take some of the load off of him by taking the kids to daycare, etc then herself? Again, this whole story sounds “fishy” to me! He should still have some kind of charges brought against him (like I said before, whether you mean to or not, everyone should be held responsible and given some kind of punishment!), whether he meant to or not, he still took the life of an innocent child, he can go to jail for a few months and get his much needed rest!!
UM????
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:29 am
oh and something else…..
“But on Tuesday, Takemoto, 46, arrived at Baby Steps Infant and Toddler Care shortly before 9 a.m., telling staffers that his schedule had changed for the rest of the week and that he’d be taking his two daughters to soccer practice first before arriving with Ian, employee Haseena Dawud said. ”
so he went to the daycare FIRST, didn’t drop the baby off, then left with the two daughter’s, dropped them off, and then went to work?? OK, what doesn’t sound right there? First off, surely his daughter’s would have reminded him when he came back out to the car that hey dad, you forgot to take the baby in with you! And, why didn’t someone at the daycare he was talking to about his schedule changing that week not ask him where the baby was? If you tell me that that whole sentence of him going in and telling them at the center, etc, makes sense and sounds “innocent” so to speak to you, then your full of it!! He obviously remembered to stop at the daycare, but didn’t care the baby in with him??? Again, doesn’t sound right to me!! Maybe he needs a mental evaluation done while he’s having a vacation to catch up on sleep!!
UM????
Aug 6, 2007 at 9:43 am
And you know what else…..THIS CASE JUST PROVES HOW OVERWORKED WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY!! Maybe this story needs to be passed on to every manager, executive, etc. of EVERY business in America (this story and others like it), to show how overworked their employees are!! 15 hours a day, yeah, it takes its toll on the body!! If this get’s chalked up to just being sleep deprived with this father, then by george I think we as a nation then need to start demanding that we work less hours each day but for the same amount of pay! That’s ridiculous that Siemen’s, one of the largest companies in the US, would work their employees that many hours!! I also think that if employers are going to expect their employees to work so much, they should all also be required to have onsite childcare provided for each worker! If you employ over 50 employees, the building should have daycare in it as well, this way parents can spend more time with their children instead of the measly 3 to 4 hours most working parents get to spend each day with their kids (if their lucky to get that much time even!!). Just goes to show how greedy business is today!!! Maybe prosecuters should consider fining his employer then if this comes back that it’s due to his sleep deprived state due to overworking that made him forget his baby in the car!! In fact, maybe the family should consider filing a claim against the company for millions of dollars since the company is an “accomplice” to this!! It truely is amazing the abuse we as citizens take everyday, not to mention the abuse we then put on our children because of our work demands!!! Makes a person truely sick!! Sad thing is, we allow ourselves everyday to “neglect” our children in some way (whether it’s not being able to spend enough time with them, etc.) all for the sake of business and growth!! I like the way France does it….work 4 days 10 hours each, required 3 days off each week (no change in pay!), with a mandatory 3 month paid “vacation” during the summertime, doesn’t really sound too bad to me considering in this country, you can work 7 days a week and still not get ahead!!! Crazy!!
Ange
Aug 7, 2007 at 3:07 am
OK I am sorry, but his employer is now responsible because he has taken on too much responsibility? To me that is ludicrous. This is part of the problem in our country right now. Be accuontable for what you do!
Whether it was a blatant act of negligence, or it was an accident because he was on autopilot and/or overworked it is a tragedy. Tragedy or not HE should be accountable and no one else.
Also, if you live in socialist countries like France (the pansy bastards ;o) ) then you pay a lot of your taxes so that they can afford to give their employees three months off in the summer. In Canadia you get 6 months off, with pay for the birth of a child. Great, but socialism here would change many of the things that set us apart.
It’s not perfect here but I’d be careful about suing your employer cuz you had a retaqrd moment and killed your kid.
Sorry, but that’s the blunt version of My Humble Opinion…
CarysEhlwinn
Aug 7, 2007 at 3:23 am
“So sad that some people have to stick up for the accused all the time fair this fair that like I said screw that
he lost fair when he left the baby and it passed away.”
I certainly hope that people are more compassionate toward you if you ever make a serious mistake.
Of course, you’ll have “lost your fair” so you’ll own up, right? You won’t ask for compassion from people, you’ll tell the media what a dirty scumbag you are…
right.
C.
Meredith
Aug 7, 2007 at 5:01 am
I cannot understand how some people can be so sure that noone ever forgets their child. People do not forget they HAVE a child, they simply forget if the child came with them, especially if they sometimes are in the car with them and sometimes are not. If this was not true, there would not be so many cases! I have never forgot my child, probably because I read stories like this, and it makes me even more vigilant about checking who came with me “this trip”. I hope everyone who wants to judge this man never experiences a time where they do something really really stupid that results in such misfortune.
Mom of three
Aug 7, 2007 at 5:23 am
The answer is so simple, as many have mentioned. All day cares should call when a child doesn’t show up. They could charge a fee if they need to make this call, just like they charge for late pick ups, ensuring that most parents would remember to call if their child wasn’t going in that day.
UM????
Aug 7, 2007 at 6:41 am
Ange…..I was being sarcastic..maybe I should have stated that…because reality is everyone does try to blame others for their actions, and they shouldn’t! I agree, the man needs to be charged with something, I’ve stated that before numerous times already. My statement about the employer though does make some sense…..we are extremely overworked in this country, leaving VERY little time for working parents to spend with their children, which then in turn also contributes to alot of the abuse cases we hear about (babies being abused like Evelynn Biondo…her dad was tired from working so he kicked her off the bed, hit her head against the bedpost, then shook her, she is 10 months old, she lived but is now blind!). It does all connect together and it would be really nice if society would see this and start working towards people still being able to pay their bills but not work as many hours so they can spend more time with their families (I’m a single mother….I work…I’m lucky if I get 3 to 4 hours a day with my kids, come the weekend, I’m wore out but still try to spend time with them and do whatever housework needs to be done!). Maybe as a whole, these factors do contribute to people making decisions and doing actions they normally wouldn’t do, I’m not making excuses by no means, but you have to admit, I’m not getting any richer by working 10 hours a day or more, I still am struggling paycheck to paycheck, and who in the end suffers? My children and me! Just a thought! Also, add up all of the taxes you pay…sales taxes, house taxes, car taxes, income taxes, gas taxes, etc, add all of those individual taxes up that you pay on a daily, monthly and yearly basis, I bet you’ll find that we’re being taxed to death the same as france so to speak, we just don’t notice it or think it’s that high because it’s broke down in such a fine way!! I’m paying taxes into a welfare system that I can’t even get assistance from, and yet there are those around me that get a year long paid vacation (on welfare) at my expense! I bet if you took a closer look, you’d see my point, this country just covers it all up in a different way that isn’t quite as noticeable!
As far as the others who are just willing to chalk this up as a bad accident and thinks nothing should be done to the father, well, like I stated before, if we throw in something like….”dad was high on crack when he did this”, all of you would be yelling to throw the book at him and sterilize him! Why should a person who’s high on crack get penalized but the guy who’s “high on work” and sleepy walks away? It’s still the same crime…child in car, dead….should still be punished the same! Now granted, you always take into consideration the contributing factors for the harshness of the punishment, but either way, whether your sleepy or high on crack, well, your judgement is obviously lacking and not at it’s strong point! This man’s daily routine included him dropping the baby off at daycare, NOT dropping his daughter’s off wherever, so the baby should have stood out even more in his mind, no excuses! I don’t buy the excuse “well my memory just sucks and there’s nothing I can do about it”….bull! The mind is capable of anything you want it to do, you’ll do exercises to lose weight, so do exercises to improve your memory!! To me, it’s all a copout….I forgot…because as of yet, we have no tests that can truely test someone to see if they forgot or not!!
UM????
Aug 7, 2007 at 6:54 am
Ever heard the term…”it takes a tribe to raise a child”? Last time I checked, my employer has become part of my “tribe”, my daughter’s daycare has become part of my “tribe”, my friends and family are part of my “tribe”, I spend more time with my coworkers then I do my kids on a weekly basis! So yeah, maybe those around me should help more with me raising my children and contribute to my children’s wellbeing!! If I forget to drop my daughter off at daycare, they should call me (public schools in my area does that if your child is not there by 10:00am in the morning for school, they call with a recording asking you to call them back to explain why your child isn’t there!!); if my employer is wanting me to come to work each day to earn the company more money while I get a really small paycheck, then they should provide onsite childcare free of charge (with the higher management who’s making alot more money then me paying for their childcare costs at the same center!). If my family and friends see that I’m too overworked, too tired and I really could use a few hours to rest and get my mind straight, then they should be jumping in and helping! If my neighbor sees me abusing my children, then they should get involved to protect my children! Getting on sites like this and discussing ways of overcoming all of these issues, that’s getting involved to try to help the issue! So see, yes, it really does involve everyone around us, because if everyone acted more like a “tribe” to help raise our children, then we would probably see a lot less cases of abuse! I don’t recall there being so many stories of abuse, etc, just 60 years ago!! What’s changed over the past 60 years or so??? Figure out the answer and I’m sure you’d see my point!!
txnonna
Aug 7, 2007 at 7:07 am
This is so sad. I just can’t understand how anyone could forget a child in a car. However I do understand how a parent mind could be elsewhere while driving and forget if the baby is quit and sleeping but as they get out of their car most (I would think) would glance in the back set as they are locking their car or walking away. A big car-seat would stick out saying HELLO, your forgetting something. It’s very sad what this poor child went through before taking their last breath.
May this poor sweet child rest in peace in the arms of our Lord now. What a painful memory to have to live for the rest of your life, knowing because of your own stupidity your child is no longer alive.
Ange
Aug 7, 2007 at 8:09 am
In response to:
we are extremely overworked in this country, leaving VERY little time for working parents to spend with their children, which then in turn also contributes to alot of the abuse cases we hear about…
OK I have raised my kids in poverty (had all three between the ages of 17 and 21, another dumbass young parent) and my husband and I have had choices to make. Most of our early marriage we had no car. We took the bus because we couldn’t afford a car. There are plenty of families out there who can take care of themselves without working to death.
It’s a matter of choices. Do you really need cable TV, internet, ciggarettes, a car, a big screen tv, go out to dinner ever week or a movie, what can you give up to keep from being that tired and overworked? We made sacrafices so that we had time together, so that we weren’t so overworked (tho we were way underpaid ha ha ha) that we were unable to take care of ourselves or our children.
I also have a choice between jobs. May not be a pleasant choice but it is MY CHOICE to make none the less. Trust me, many times i have exercised that choice because a job interfered with my ability to care for or spend time with my family…
I still feel that people need to be accountable for what they do. This idea of suing employers cuz their employee isn’t getting enough sleep is similar to suing bar tenders becaus their dumbass patrons don’t know when to stop drinking and even better, insist on driving after drinking!
I think it’s wrong and it removes the accountability for the choices individuals make and places it on other people who should only be accountable for themselves. At the same time, people should worry more about themselves and less about others.
Don’t get me wrong there is a balance to be had. People and especially children need to be watched out for. I just find that most of the whiney bastards in society are so busy watching what I am or am not doing, that they’re not taking care of their own business. Leave me alone and take care of your own, please!
This trend is spreading to the point of seriously threatening our freedom of religion (I am spiritual, non christian FYI) and freedom of speech.
Do you know that congress is looking at a bill that will make a clergy member, preaching from the bible about homosexuality being wrong, responsible for the hate crimes committed by his church members! (I don’t believe this piece of christian prejudice, but this is protected speech under our CURRENT constitution)
This is ludicrous because it would cover only the relaying of the message in the bible it would not require that these clergy men actually advocate violence against homosexuals.
Where do we draw the line and when do we start being acountable for ourselves?
UM????
Aug 7, 2007 at 9:10 am
Ange, big difference between you and me…..I don’t have a spouse, and yes, I have tried to manuveur myself up through different job choices that would allow more time for my kids and gives better pay, but it’s hard to do with the economy the way it is right now, right now (even with a college degree and years of experience like I have) I’m lucky to be working temp positions in companies that don’t want to offer me any benefits, etc! And, I agree, my family comes first, but then you also have to take into consideration that your family also needs a roof over it’s head, and when your a single parent like I am, well, I have even sacrificed eating just so my children can eat! You have two working adults in your home, I have one..ME! But when I sit here in this temporary position, waiting for someone to offer me fulltime employment somewhere so I can get some benefits for my children, and then the daycare calls and states I have to come pickup my sick child, which then cuts the amount of hours I get paid for that day (because being a temp, your not given sick days or vacation days, much less being given holiday pay!), as well as the hours I lose the next day if I can’t find someone else to watch my child who’s sick and now has to stay out of the daycare for 24 hours, then it’s a little hard to pay rent when it comes due, no matter how many sacrifices a person makes, and not to mention, most jobs are not willing to be so kind to a single parent always having to leave work to take care of their children, whether it’s sickness, appointments, etc, ….so bye bye job when they say don’t return!!! And child support, well, let’s not go there, that’s another government run joke that really needs an overhaul! All I’m saying is is that this adds to the stress level, when a person has sacrificed and sacrificed as much as they can (I have to have the car because public transportation doesn’t go where my current job assignment is, and my car is paid off, has been for years!), you have to admit, the stress can contribute to alot of the abuse issues! But why am I working so hard for a measly amount of pay when the companies I go to work for are making millions of dollars and could afford to pay me better or give me better benefits? do you realize that ALOT of people anymore go on vacation and take work with them? WHY????? I surely don’t get to go out to dinner or a movie once a week, I’m lucky if I get to go out to dinner once every couple of months, and a movie? well, it’s been over a year since the last time I got to go see a movie! And don’t tell me there’s public assistance available, I know there is, but I don’t qualify because the measly $300 a month I’m supposed to receive in child support (and I don’t receive it!!) knocks me out of qualifying for any kind of assistance! And the waiting list for help with housing, well, it’s a two year waiting list before I might get assistance, so I’m hoping by the time they get around to my name that I already have a well paying job and won’t need it, which is how it usually works!
Now obviously though, this man was not stressed, working 15 hours a day for a company in a position that sounds like he was being paid pretty well for (what did it say he was…a computer engineer or something like that?), well, his problem was he was just too tired! chances are the man was a salaried employee, meaning he didn’t get paid overtime for those extra hours over 8 hrs a day! This man obviously doesn’t have near the amount of mental stress on him that a single parent like me would have on them, and yet I have never forgot my child in the car!! Maybe if his company was a little more willing to back off the amount of hours he was working, he wouldn’t have felt so tired!
Also, concerning the drunk driving stuff…..well, maybe they should hold the bar/bartender accountable, after all, they have rules they are supposed to follow as well, and one of those rules is that they are not supposed to continue serving someone who’s intoxicated! They do have the right to refuse someone more drinks if they feel the person has had enough (and please, someone sitting on your bar stool most of the night who’s already had 6 beers….you don’t think that’s a little much within a few hours??). In fact, I have heard of a few cases where places have lost liqour licenses, were fined, etc, because they continued serving someone who had clearly had enough to drink, and trust me, if me or my children were injured by a drunk driver, watch and see if not only do I hold the person who injured us responsible but also sue the bar that served the person!! So your telling me that if you have a friend over at your house who’s had one too many to drink you would just let them leave because it’s none of your business? Okay, well, that’s the problem with our society today, no one gets involved to make changes!
And again, no one brought up religion in all of this, what does freedom of religion have to do with holding people acountable, etc? Geesh, i get so tired of the people that keep bringing religion up in everything and those who hide behind religion as a way to try to cover up what they did! Why is it that a catholic choir boy’s family can hold the church responsible for the rabbie molesting their son and get awarded thousands/millions of dollars in their case, but yet an average person can’t hold their employer or a bar or whoever accountable to contributing to something that happened with them? Could it be because although the church in no way told this rabbie to rape this kid, BUT because the rabbie represents the church and it makes the church look bad? Well gee, this man is in this blog is overworked and tired, he works for Seimans, well that means he represents them and that doesn’t look good for them that they work their employees 15 hours a day! See my point? probably not
UM????
Aug 7, 2007 at 9:32 am
oh and another thing, I don’t care who’s gay or who’s not, as long as their not abusing children or others around them! Maybe the clergy man should be held responsible for the hate crimes, after all, who is the clergy man to say what’s right or what’s wrong based on the bible and try to push his thoughts on the topic on his congregation? To me, I think most churches are cults, plain and simple, I’m not saying I’m atheist but when you go into a church and they want you to think their way, act their way, etc, well, that sounds like a cult to me! My religion is between me and God, THAT is no one else’s business, and I don’t feel I should have to go to church each week to prove anything to others! I live by example, I try to be “godlike” myself, and live the way God wants us to live, and does the bible not say to obey the laws of the land?? The only thing I personally have found church to be good for is the fellowship part, and even then that has been questionable at times! When I walk into a church with questions concerning the bible, I should be able to ask those questions, still have my own opinion, and not be looked down upon because of the way I interpret something or because of how I chose to believe! So what if someone is gay, as long as their not bending you over or pushing it down your child’s throat to “be gay” when they get older, then let God deal with them! I know some gay people who are very giving, very honest, very trustworthy, VERY good examples of how we should live towards others, the only difference with them is the sex they chose to sleep with, sadly, I can’t say I’ve seen those qualities in people at most of the churches I’ve been to! Most of the churches I’ve gone to (and believe me, I’ve been to most of the different religious types…catholic, baptist, methodist, etc etc….of churchs, and one thing is always the same about all of them…they judge you by what you wear, what you drive, what you say, how much you put in the offering plate, and they ALWAYS try to get me to think “their way”. I could go on and on, but this isn’t about religion, but since you brought it up, I just thought I would give my point of view on it!
UM????
Aug 7, 2007 at 11:21 am
you know, canada with the healthcare for everyone, france with the work ideas, really when you think about it, how is that taking anyone’s rights away? If anything, it’s giving EVERYONE the same rights! Right now as a poor person, what rights do I have? None really, I can’t go to the “best” doctors that richer people can go to, I pay a hell of alot more for insurance then those make 10 times what I make and get ALOT less in coverage, I have to sit in my office all day while the boss is out playing golf that is somehow work related, I have to work longer hours to cover the work that the boss can’t get done because of his golf outing, I get paid a hell of lot less then he does, what else, I’m sure I can go on and on, how is this not infringing on my rights? Oh but that’s right, if we make it fair healthcare for everyone, and fair work related issues for everyone, no matter what ‘level” you are within the company, etc, we’ve taken away the classes now, making everyone equal, and geesh, in America, where everyone is supposed to have the same rights as everyone else, and our country was based on everyone being treated equally, we just can’t have the poor folk now showing up in the same doctor’s offices that the rich people go to!! If you think about it, if everything is made fair for everyone (and if you make more money or own more valuable resources, you should pay more into the “whole system”), like canada’s healthcare and france’s work practices, isn’t that now GIVING more people rights that we’re all supposed to have???? But gee, we can’t break up the classes and make everyone equal, oh no, can’t do that, because then somehow we’re violating people’s rights????? Whatever!! If you really researched the issues, and then really thought about it, seems like it’s actually a win win situation for everyone, well, except of course for people like the spoiled paris hilton types, of course those types forget that if it wasn’t for the poor people working in their businesses, gee, they wouldn’t be so rich now!!
Ange
Aug 8, 2007 at 3:55 am
Maybe you should go back and read my post again… I tied the freedom of religion in with this topic in terms of ridiculous lawsuits that hold people accountable for things they should never be accountable for…
Boils down to, we all have choices. You need to be accountable for you, and I for me, and leave everyone else alone unless they’redoing things that cause other’s harm, or interferes with you.
Bartenders shouldn’t have to worry about declining to serve patrons. Those laws came about because people wouldn’t be accountable for themselves. When I go to have a drink, I know when to stop. If you don’t you shouldn’t drink, at the bar or at home.
Single parent or not, you have choices to make. Maybe you (like myself) are paying for some of your past choices. I am sorry life’s so rough, but you make the assumption that because I have a husband, or that this guy had an engineering job that means we have less stress than you do.
I certainly don’t want a pissing contest here, from what I can see everyone’s pretty miserable right now, unless you’re banking $100k or better a year, and even many of those people are scrambling.
I can tell you, married or not, I have had more stress recently than ever before in my life. There are many expenses that we can all cut out if we need to. We choose not to because as a society we’ve become entitled, spoiled and complacent.
I think you are a bit misinformed about what work related rights we have. First there are a lot of quality issues with socialist countries and their universal health care. Second, you have the right to go get a job, you have the right to be paid for OT, if you’re not on salary, and you have the right to be paid in a timely manner. That’s a simple, basic run down of your rights. If you don’t like the job you have get another one. I have spent my time in the trenches working two jobs and raising my kids. I know the options aren’t pleasant, but they’re still your choices. If the choices you are making are not working, take responsibility for yourself and your situation and change your scenerey.
Life is not fair. It never will be. You have to take charge of your own shit and do what needs to be done. You’re a single mother, you already know this witout me having to tell you. I would advise you to skip the raging against the machine part ( as it does no good at all, life is not, nor ever will be fair) and buck up and do what needs to be done.
Ange
Aug 8, 2007 at 4:05 am
IN RESPONSE TO:
Why is it that a catholic choir boy’s family can hold the church responsible for the rabbie molesting their son and get awarded thousands/millions of dollars in their case, but yet an average person can’t hold their employer or a bar or whoever accountable to contributing to something that happened with them?
Because the priest did the diddling and the church covered it up. In the case of the bartender he neither did the drinking or the driving that caused the fatal wreck…?
The priest (and those who helped cover it up) should be accountable for what THEY ALONE DID. The bartender served a customer, he didn’t drink and/or drive.
IN RSPONSE TO:
after all, who is the clergy man to say what’s right or what’s wrong based on the bible and try to push his thoughts on the topic on his congregation?
I am not christian. I am not any religion, I have my own set of beliefs that make sense to me. That said hate speech is protected under the constitution. It HAS to be. Regardless of how vile speech is (unless you’re yelling fire in a crowded theatre) we must protect the freedom to think and speak ideas that aren’t pleasant to the main group.
What’s offensive to you may not be to me. I am a HUGE advocate of GLBT rights. It pisses me off to no end that gays can’t marry. That doesn’t mean thatother people have to think, feel or speak the way I do.
These preachers are not making shit up, they’re reading and preaching from an ancient book that millions around theworld believe to be the word of god. Christianity is not the only gay-hating religion. And, why should a clergy member be accountable for what billions of people before him have read and believed? UNLESS HE IS TELLING HIS CONGREGATION TO COMMIT acts against the people he is speaking about, it shouldn’t be illegal.
If he IS suggesting that his congregation go out and commit crimes against any protected group then it’s already a crime. It’s called inciting a crime.
People, please take responsibility for you. Stop finding every lame ass reason in the book for not being able to do what you need to, or for all the stupid shit you’ve done.
We are all human. We are fallible. Allow yourself to be imperfect, accept that the world is not fair or perfect and accept that imperfection in others.
Ange
Aug 8, 2007 at 4:11 am
So your telling me that if you have a friend over at your house who’s had one too many to drink you would just let them leave because it’s none of your business?
I don’t serve alcohol to people who will be driving. If I have a friend or two over who will be drinking they stay the night. I don’t associate with people on a personal level who make those kinds of choices. I choose to surround myself with people who feel THEY are accountable for what they do.
Sorry this was in pieces geesh.
Ange
Aug 8, 2007 at 4:31 am
IN RESPONSE TO:
when you think about it, how is that taking anyone’s rights away? If anything, it’s giving EVERYONE the same rights! Right now as a poor person, what rights do I have? None really, I can’t go to the “best” doctors that richer people can go to
oK LAST POST ON THIS, PROMISE :O)
You already have the same RIGHTS as those other people. You have the right to go to a doctor. If it’s life threatening, or very serious you have the right to be seen even though you can’t make payment.
You confuse rights with ability. You have the right to see any doctor you want to, as long as you can pay, which would reflect your ability. If youcan’t afford it, there are hospitals and clinics all over the place that offer sliding fee scale services. That is for those who make too much for govt assistance, but who also can’t afford their health insurance.
RESPONSE TO:
I have to work longer hours to cover the work that the boss can’t get done because of his golf outing, I get paid a hell of lot less then he does, what else, I’m sure I can go on and on, how is this not infringing on my rights?
You have the right to work. You have the right to make the same as a man in the workplace for the same work. You have the right to work your ass off and climb that business ladder like your boss did.
What makes you feel so entitled that you feel you should make more money than your boss? He may be out there playing golf. Chances are he’s doing it with business associates who will provide him goods and services, or will buy HIS goods and services thus providing you a little job security. I guarantee you, it may look to you like he has the cushy liesurely job, but chances are he is as stressed as you are. You spend what you make, period.
Don’t get me wrong, I think these companies should be paying employees more. I barely scrape by myself. But again, you are confusing rights with wants.
We ALL want to make more. We all feel like we do more work than we’re getting paid for. Sorry about your luck, but here’s where the rubber hits the road. It’s time to work a little harder (not sayiing you haven’t worked hard) and dig a little deeper.
Everyone making the same for all work is communism. You see how that worked out for Russia. Problem with communism is there are two classes period. There’s the wealthy govt, and the rest. If you go to france or canadia, it’s just like here, except you pay a lot more in taxes and you get crappier doctors.
Another faulty statement is that our country was founded on everyone being treated fairly. It was based on us each havng equal rights, totally different concepts.
We DO all have the same rights. But you are accountable (there’s that damn word again) for making sure you’re rights are enforced. It just so happens that wealthier people can afford better attorneys. So, while we each have equal rights, the enforcement of those rights varies from situation to situation. Sucks right? But life is not fair!!!
I feel for your situation. I would be happy to help you find community resources. It is one of my talents. We have lived in poverty much of our lives. If I can help let me know. One thing I can tell you that should be helpful is that if your temp company isn’t offering you benefits and you’ve been working for 90 days through them I would find another temp company. Most of them do offer benefits now and i can tell you about a few national ones that do.
I really wish you the best. It sounds like you have some serious struggles ahead of you. I myself am in a situation where things have NEVER been as stressful as they are now. I will leave you with the best advice my mother ever gave me. It suits me well and allows me to stay focused on what i am able to address. It’s in the form of a prayer, but i am not christian so I don’t pray. It still helps!
God,