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Parents Behaving Badly

Clint and Lynn Engstrom Accused of Keeping Daughter Captive for Two Years

by admin on January 18th, 2007

Clint and Lynn EngstromSigh. Here we go again - another child imprisonment case. How many of those have we seen in the past year? At a minimum, there’s Randall Piercy, who used security cameras to keep his son locked in his room; Teresa Moses, who killed her son through torture in her basement/dungeon; and Abdel-Nasser Youssef Ibrahim and his ex-wife Amal Ahmed Ewis Abdel-Motelib, who made a young Egyptian girl their house slave. Oh, oh - and how can I forget the Gravelles?! And those are only the ones I can remember off of the top of my head.

So who’s next on the hit parade? father Clint Engstrom and his wife Lynn of Oshkosh, Wisconsin. These sterling parents let Clint’s 13-year-old daughter out of her room a grand total of two hours a day to go potty and to do some chores. For the other 22 hours, she remained locked in a bedroom, behind a deadbolted door guarded by a security system. Her sole possessions were a urine-soaked bed, a blanket, and a couple other items. “Mealtimes”, according to what the girl told police, consisted of a PB&J, or a fruit and grain bar. (You gotta love parents who spare no expense for their kids’ nutrition.) The poor teen was so malnourished that she risked sneaking out and stealing food from downstairs during the night, even though if she were caught, she’d have to skip two meals. The teen only managed to escape this nightmare after she started tearing her hair out, and the parents rushed her to the hospital.

I’m sure that there will be a parade of relatives and friends coming out just as they have done on behalf of Randall Piercy and insist that the Engstroms only did this because they loved their troubled daughter. These parents always have some brilliant excuse for treating their kids like shit. In the Engstrom’s case, they used the Running with Scissors Defense, a.k.a. The Crazy Shrink Defense, insisting that their psychiatrist demanded they keep the girl imprisoned. The Gravelles - er, I’m sorry, the Engstroms say that they questioned their shrink, but followed his orders anyway. Apparently they never asked the most critical question: “Who ever gave a quack like you a license to practice psychiatry?”

The couple’s other three children, aged 8 to 12, weren’t given the same shitty treatment, leading the girl to ask police at the hospital what she had done that caused her parents to lock her up for two years. Police did their best to reassure her that it wasn’t her fault. Certainly not, sweetie. It was the fault of your disgusting, Neanderthal “parents”, who are currently enjoying better conditions in their jail cell than they forced you to live in.

The girl is living with her grandmother. Her mom, who was never married to Clint Engstrom (gee, I wonder why), hasn’t commented publicly on the case. Hopefully, she’ll step up and Do The Right Thing by her daughter.

(Thanks to all our tipsters for this one!)

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151 opinions for Clint and Lynn Engstrom Accused of Keeping Daughter Captive for Two Years

  • Les
    Jan 18, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    Another kid who’ll be messed up for life.

    Lock them up with John Violette in gen pop.

  • The American Mind / No Cinderella Story
    Jan 18, 2007 at 10:17 pm

    […] “Clint and Lynn Engstrom Accused of Keeping Daughter Captive for Two Years” Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]

  • saw
    Jan 19, 2007 at 7:21 am

    This case is about 45 minutes from where I live. In yesterday’s paper it stated that one of the grandmothers attempted to get child protection services involved with the girl, but the police didn’t believe her and the grandmother ended up being cited for disorderly conduct I believe. More information on story if you go to jsonline.com

  • Patty
    Jan 19, 2007 at 10:16 am

    Here is another link
    http://www.wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=5960940

    grandmother Beth Redman came to the girl’s house December 20th and tried to find her granddaughter

    Stepmother Lynn Engstrom was later granted a restraining order barring Redman from contacting the family.

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 19, 2007 at 10:17 am

    Holy shit. I smell a lawsuit in the offing.

  • Patty
    Jan 19, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    Here is the actual criminal complaint

    http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan07/oshkosh011807.pdf

  • Gay Harris
    Jan 19, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    How does one defend behavior such as this? Neither Hell nor Earth should have mercy for these two.Why didn’t Clint let his daughter go to a grandparent before subjecting her to this type of treatment? Did Lynn not wonder what would happen to her own kids if this “imprisonment” and cruel treatments were discovered? The proposed sentencing is too light. Whatever assets they have should all belong to the daughter in a civil action. The poor daughter deserves both criminal and civil justice.

  • Patty
    Jan 20, 2007 at 10:17 am

    I just found something that might be of interest. Clint is in a band called “TAINTED”

    Here is the link to that:
    http://www.livebands.net/Biography.cfm?MID=3794

    Taken from part of his Biography page
    “He spends as much time as he can enjoying life with his wife Lynn (who both have a never ending quest of remodeling their home) and their 4 children.”

    What a joke.

    I hope the grandma who tried to save that little girls sues. Everyone says you suspect abuse do something about it. When Grandma tried, she was slapped a restraining order. What has this world come to?

  • LadyDi
    Jan 20, 2007 at 11:55 am

    I agree the grandmother should sue. Les said it well “Lock them up with John Violette in gen pop”.Could not agree more.

  • Screw The Real Kids - Let’s Focus on Hounddog - from The Zero Boss by Jay Andrew Allen
    Jan 20, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    […] Why did child services in California not know that Raijon Daniels was being tortured to death in his mother’s basement? What allowed social workers there to ignore the obvious signs of abuse, and the doctor’s report of molestation? Why did police attempt to arrest the grandmother of a teen who tried to visit her, instead of investigating the parents who kept her locked in her room for 22 hours a day, two years straight? […]

  • Deb
    Jan 22, 2007 at 10:44 am

    This is about 1 hours from where I live. I find it interesting that these two actually called the police to have the grandmother arrested. They called the police into their home! Were they so confident they wouldn’t get caught, or so deluded they didn’t think they were doing anything wrong?

  • Fred
    Jan 22, 2007 at 6:35 pm

    I just wanted to let all of you know that the biological mother gave up her parental rights, so even if she does come forward (and way too late, don’t you think) the court does not remove her from the ONLY loving home she has been in for the past 2 years!

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 22, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    Fred, are you saying that the Engstrom’s home was “loving”? By what definition?!

  • Fred
    Jan 22, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    Lord no! I’m saying that she is in one now!

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 22, 2007 at 9:49 pm

    Oh. Okay. Gotcha.

    Whew. :-)

  • Patty
    Jan 24, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    Beth Redmann, the grandmother, had the disorderly conduct charge against her dismissed today.

    I am so happy to hear the court did the right thing by the grandmother. She was only doing what we all should do when we suspect abuse.

  • Fred
    Jan 25, 2007 at 6:37 am

    I hope they don’t dismiss the restraining order and get Lynn for purgery to add to her list of crimes

  • Elle
    Jan 25, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    This case hurts my heart. From what I’ve read it sounds as though the police were called to the home by Lynn after the grandmother was already gone. When they got there no grandma was on scene and all four children were in plain view with no noticable problems. They were investigating a past tense disturbance. They had no child welfare complaint at that time. Later in talking to grandma they found there was a disturbance by grandma’s admission, but had no right to go back and search the house at that time. Still, they should have at least forwarded a report to child protective services FYI to advise there was a child welfare complaint, or even went back themselves to follow up on grandma’s complaint. The Engstroms claim that they were following doctor’s orders… smells fishy. I think they are lying about that. I am interested in hearing the true facts about the doctor’s orders. I can’t wait to hear their defense on this case. But - even as they sit in jail waiting for their trial they still have more luxuries than their daughter had in her own home.

  • Fred
    Jan 25, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    Just to let you know, it was just reported on http://www.thenorthwestern.com (click to find the video) that the lawyer for Lynn is claiming that the child has a “veracity” problem and that they (the paerents) have needed to seek help because of her problems. Give me a break. Who the Hell are they kidding? I don’t give a rats ass if she almost broke up their marriage. I have 2 kids and there is no way I would EVER blame a divorce on either of them. (again see the video) I know I’m going on, but I’m so flippin’ angry that I could spit! Lynn’s lawyer actually tried to get the bail reduced so that she can be a part of her other childrens lives, you know the ones who were allowed to go out in public! The absolute balls that this takes is beyond me. Thankfully, the judge didn’t, but the way the justice system has worked in this case so far, I’m a little shocked. Clint’s lawyer did not speak, or I’m sure I’d be ranting about him also.

    I haven’t had a good nights sleep since this entire thing started, just when I think I can, something else seems to be made public and I think of my own kids.

  • Elle
    Jan 25, 2007 at 5:29 pm

    I checked the videos from the Northwestern. What a bunch of crap! There is no way the doctors, social workers, etc. could have known what was really going on in that house. And as far as them saying the daughter is lying - whatever- the physical evidence speaks for itself. I believe in my heart of hearts that although both parents are responsible, Lynn has been manipulating everyone involved; schools, doctors, family, the girl’s friends, etc. I wonder how long before her and Clint turn on each other. I believe she is very deceptive in her ways of making people believe what she wants them to. It will all come out soon enough. Lies always catch up.

  • bigmomma
    Jan 25, 2007 at 5:33 pm

    You don’t know the whole story about the child’s MOTHER. Her and another unmentioned woman have both been squeezed out. You don’t get the whole story, so don’t be so quick to assume you know too much.

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 25, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    Okay, I’m going to delete ANY OTHER COMMENT that says what bigmomma just said. I am so sick of this bullshit.

    If you have other facts and evidence, then GIVE THEM. Don’t waste our fucking time chiding us for “not knowing all the facts”, but failing to spill any new information about the case. Look in the China Arnold thread, where people have not just contradicted the reported facts, but have offered new information and viable theories of their own casting doubt on the mom’s guilt.

    Until these supposed “new facts” come to light, people are 100% justified in basing their judgments on the available information.

  • Elle
    Jan 25, 2007 at 5:38 pm

    The child’s MOTHER isn’t on trial for locking her up for two years. If she gave up her parental rights, at least maybe she could admit she couldn’t be a good mother.

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 25, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    Bah. Just realized Bigmomma’s comment is about the bio-mom, not Lynn Engstrom. Still, same principle applies - facts, please, and no more of these dumb “I know something you don’t know” assertions.

  • Elle
    Jan 25, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    I know bigmomma’s comment was referring to the biological mother, that was who I was commenting about in my last comment, and I agree, if you know something SAY IT, don’t play games.

  • Fred
    Jan 25, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    I do know that the boilogical mother DID give up her rights, but I don’t know exactly why. and, yes there are MANY people squeezed out of this childs life, but when you give a child up, you DO NOT have the right to now want rights! Give me a break! The biological mother’s family are now crying that they want a relationship with the child. Guess what, too little too late. They seem to care more about the TV cameras than the child. If you don’t believe me, try to find the original interviews and compare them to how the “grandparents” llok now. I saw them on TV and the step-grandmother looked like she just stepped out of a salon. I can try to give them the benefit of the doubt because maybe they were just trying to impress the judge, but comparing the way they looked to the people who have custody - oh wait, they aren’t seeking publicity!

  • Elle
    Jan 25, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    I’m not sure how I feel about the grandparents just wanting contact now, they seem to be pretty sincere with the child’s wellbeing a priority. If their daughter gave up her rights, that probably put them in an awkward position with no real “rights” as grandparents to see the child after that. I haven’t heard enough about the history but I’m sure some of that information will come out. (I have to admit if I knew that news cameras were going to be on me I would probably be not want to look too sloppy). Does anyone else here feel that the stepmother is manipulative by the reports? It’s just a gut feeling but she seems to be the one behind everything that keeps coming up. I just don’t know enough about the dad (Clint) to know if he was manipulated too or if he was a willing participant, either way he could have done something to stop it. This case will be interesting as it progresses. There seems to be a lot of disfunction in the family so it’s hard to follow the family tree, too many branches!

  • mitchell
    Jan 25, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    this is going out to you peoeple who dont know the people involved in this case first of all to let everyone know the family of this little girl havent seen her in over two years kinda hard to do that when they move and dont tell people where they moved to and will not return phone calls my god really everyone think they know the answers and for us to be more considered about the cameras why dont u ask the camera men what they have been told by us we are a family that sticks together no matter what and all we want if for her to get better and start enjoying her life on both sides this girl had a wonderful realtionship with this family until we were shut out you are going by what the media tells u not the facts im not gonna let people sit here and cut the family down when u know nothing of them now do u a web we weve now isnt it

  • mitchell
    Jan 25, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    this next statement is for FRED i really dont know who u are and u have no idea who i am and it will stay that way where the heck do u get off saying that the family is crying now becuase they want a realtionship with her we had a realtionship with her until it was taken away and that we are more worried about the cameras give me a BREAK come on should i play on your level or would u please step up and be an adult and stop assuming things because when u do makes u and me look like an ass now doesnt it

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 26, 2007 at 2:22 am

    Mitchell, people might take you more seriously if you learned how to use punctuation and capitalization.

    I’m just saying.

  • Just Me
    Jan 26, 2007 at 5:00 am

    What parent would take the advice of locking up your child? Seriously if someone told me that, no matter what was wrong with my kid, I would immediately seek a second opinion. Even if they were actually told that, that is still no excuse.

    This whole thing saddens me beyond belief, I know Clint I grew up with him, never in a million years would I have thought this of him. But heck we never do. Parents like this deserve the worse themselves.

  • mitchell
    Jan 26, 2007 at 6:14 am

    Zero I am not gonna sit here and make sure everything is perfect when posting a comment and if you can not understand what someone is typing because this letter might not be capitalized and another not then I think you have the problem all I am saying is people are sitting here saying how my family is when none of you have been here the last few years and what we have gone threw now have you and becasue the grandparents looked decent on tv come on anyone see the other people in the case at court how they looked usally when you go to things like this you tend to look good not like you jump came out of a dumpster now do you

  • Fred
    Jan 26, 2007 at 8:19 am

    Sorry Mitchell, but it does seem that you are going out of your way to contact the media. That is just my opinion. Sure I have no idea of your relationship with the child, but it seems that you are more interested in your image than what she went through. Thats all I have to say to you.
    Zero, I do agree that it is very hard to understand a long posting with no punctuation.

  • someone looking in
    Jan 26, 2007 at 8:42 am

    This is going out to Fred and Zero as someone that has known this little girl her whole life,the girls birth mothers family was cut out two years ago.They are not seeking attention they are outraged at what has happened to a little girl that they have always loved and cared about.They are not crying poor me they are just trying to make sure that she is safe, secure and loved.The comments being made are out of ignorance and not out of knowledge,the facts should come first,and grammer second.Energy should be focused on praying for the girl health and well being just as her family is doing.

  • someone looking in
    Jan 26, 2007 at 8:43 am

    P.S Mitchell seems to have more of the facts who cares about his grammer

  • Patty
    Jan 26, 2007 at 8:44 am

    I commend the biological mother for giving up her rights if she was unable to care for her daughter the way a parent should. It is better then locking her away for 2 years. Why would Clint and Lynn take that poor girl into their home just to torture her? If they didn’t want her then let someone who deserves to have a bright, wonderful girl to enlighten their lives have custody. I do understand why the Grandparents and relatives of the biological mother may not have been able to keep contact with her after the mother gave up her rights. If they did move a lot and not tell anyone it would be very hard to visit and from what I have read Lynn didn’t allow anyone with any caring bone in their body to come visit that poor girl. It would be very hard for the Grandparents and family to visit the child with Clint and Lynn being the primary parents (if you can even call them parents). This young girl has been through so much it makes me sick to think about it. I don’t think it is wrong that the biological family members want to have contact with her and love her if that is what they intend to do. She needs all the love in the world right now and anyone willing to give it more power to them. And as for the custody of this poor girl, who ever decides that better damn well know that whoever they give custody to will love and take care of her. Treat her as the beautiful child she is. I just don’t want to see her go from one bad situation to another.

  • amronjm
    Jan 26, 2007 at 11:53 am

    I agree,she needs a much better situation than she was in, but how could it get any worse? Really, this girl needs EXTRA love and attention (not that it could ever be erased from her memory). PS: Zero Boss-I could barely read the post(s) from Mitchell–I have never seen one sentence that long in my life! I was reading your mind..

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 26, 2007 at 11:56 am

    I think what’s been said about the birth-mom in the last few comments rings true. As a noncustodial dad who’s been cut out of his first daughter’s life by my ex, I know how this can happen.

    If the birth mom is really trying to reconnect and make sure her daughter is cared for, I wish her the best of luck. It should make this girl happy to know that, instead of being secreted away and treated like shit, people are now FIGHTING to love her!

  • Fred
    Jan 26, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    I don’t know, she walked away once already. Can you imagine if she (the boilogical mom) decided she couldn’t handle a child that is going to need an extraordinary amount of help, and leaves again? What would that do to a child?

  • Fred
    Jan 26, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    This is for someone looking in - What facts does Mitchell provide? I only seem to read a couple of rants.

  • The Zero Boss
    Jan 26, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    “P.S Mitchell seems to have more of the facts who cares about his grammer”

    Mitchell, that comment came from the same IP address as the last one. Nice try, trying to fake being your own supporter.

    I am deleting any more comments from you. I don’t play these games. Goodbye.

  • FILTHY
    Jan 26, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    Clint is in a band. Everyone who knows them knows that. Why didn’t the bio-moms family go to his show and try to have contact? Even if he didn’t want to talk to them I am damn sure they could have found out where he lived with a little digging. I knoe these situations are tough but if you love someone and want to have contact with them there are ways of achieving that. Just my opinion. Besides didn’t the other kids tell people they had a sister? Kids talk didn’t anyone know about this? What about the school system? Didn’t they wonder where this girl was and why she wasn’t in school. Aren’t the truency laws in this state? There is alot of information that needs to come out about this yet.

  • bigmomma
    Jan 26, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Lynn’s other children have given statements backing up the girl’s story. It was on the local news, but I’m not sure if you can get it online yet.

  • bigmomma
    Jan 26, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    Oh, also…only Lynn’s lawyer seems to be coming out and attacking the girl. I believe Fred said that also. Maybe that gives a little insight to what was being said to her lawyer…maybe that gives some insight as to who had the problem with who in the house. I can’t believe the supposed adults here are actually going to blame the child.

  • Fred
    Jan 26, 2007 at 4:08 pm

    I find it pretty sad to use a child as a defense. The facts are that Clint and Lynn admitted these things and now are backpedaling (sp?) like mad to cover their own butts. The other children have backed up the child’s statements. I can’t wait to see what the defense says about that!

  • Elle
    Jan 26, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    I am commenting on the attacks against the grandparents trying to get camera time/look good, etc. I disagree with that. All I have seen of them is true heartfelt concern for their granddaughter and a lot of emtion. I believe they wanted part in their granddaughter’s life and were being manipulated by Lynn just like everyone else in this case is being manipulated by her. Even a court couldn’t help family members see the granddaughter if Lynn and Clint weren’t letting them. If they followed Clint’s band around and tried to pursue the visitation, Lynn would have probably called the police on them for harassment. I may not know the whole story yet but I am very confident in speaking my opinion out loud that Lynn is the “bad guy” here. As far as the biological mother wanting back in, I have heard nothing about that so I can’t comment on it. I can only imagine this has got to be hurting her too. I’m not sticking up for her on giving up rights to the daughter, but we don’t know her story.

  • someone looking in
    Jan 26, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    Thank you so much Elle there should be more people like you out there.

  • bigmomma
    Jan 26, 2007 at 6:24 pm

    The newest news stories are changing some of the facts about school attendance and such. The northwestern has tid bits of the other childrens statements also if any of you are intersted in reading. The child very obviously had a problem with her stepmom from what I’m reading. The good thing for this girl is that she’s old enough to help determine some of her near future. Good thing it won’t be with Clint and Lynn no matter what Lynn’s jerk lawyer pulls out of his butt for a defense.

  • bigmomma
    Jan 26, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    Fred, I can tell you that the girl never has had any “issue” that clint and lynn claim. Atleast not prior to 2-3 years ago. They are the only ones who have ever had a problem.

  • Fred
    Jan 26, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    bigmomma I have to agree. In fact I believe that all “issues” have been brought upon by Clint and Lynn. Prior to the “grounding” I believe that she has been an exceptional student and child. I am offended that these people are using the every aspect of the system (judicial, and school) to make tham seem believable. She was a bright, funny, loving, happy child. I can only pray that she will find that person again. I would LOVE to see that child.

  • FILTHY
    Jan 26, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    Is the father of Lynn’s children have them now? Is he in the picture at all. It sounds alot like she is the bad person out of all this. I am by no means letting Clint off the hook. It just sounds like she made alot of the decisions here.

  • bigmomma
    Jan 26, 2007 at 10:31 pm

    As far as I know, the other 3 are with their Dad. Clint can’t be let off the hook because he sat back and agreed and let things happen.

  • linda k
    Jan 27, 2007 at 10:10 am

    I live in in Oshkosh and went to school with Clint. I don’t know him very well but enough to know he was not raised like this. I know his sister and his ex-wife. He ought to be ashamed! As for the psychiatrist, he is a very well-respected doctor and he has since issued a statement to the local media about this. It is a complete fabrication that he actually told Lynn to lock this girl up.
    I have met Lynn twice and I got the distinct impression that she is a self-centered and manipulative person.
    And about the bio-mom…she was a teen when she had her. Was still in school as far as I know. I am pretty sure she was a year behind me in school so she would have been 16 or 17. (Clint was a year ahead of me.) Maybe thought it was for the best.

    If you want more info you can always visit the local paper’s website.
    http://www.thenorthwestern.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

    There is a community forum message board on the paper’s site.

  • Fred
    Jan 27, 2007 at 3:51 pm

    linda k - I believe that you are right. Any person who commits this kind of abuse has to be a great manipulator. Now her ex-husband paid for the retainer for her very high priced lawyer!
    If only she put her “powers of persuation” to good use.

  • Fred
    Jan 28, 2007 at 10:09 am

    This is to FILTHY: the father of the 3 children has always had custody. She didn’t lose custody, but chose to let him have them.

  • bigmomma
    Jan 28, 2007 at 10:16 am

    Fred…dumb question. Did the Dad retain custody but Lynn have them at her house more? They went to school in Oshkosh right? Usually the one who has custody has the kids more often. Why did she choose to let the Dad have the kids?

  • Fred
    Jan 28, 2007 at 11:11 am

    Who knows why she chose, but there was no custody battle during the divorce.

  • linda k
    Jan 29, 2007 at 9:27 am

    It was on the local news this morning that the girl is terrified to testify against Lynn and Clint…big suprise…but why is she being made to testify in court in the FIRST place? Can they not just tape her accounts of the experience and play them in court? Does she really have to be present in court?
    Talk about victimizing her all over again…

  • bigmomma
    Jan 29, 2007 at 10:05 am

    I agree Linda. They said it would be a little different than the usual prelimenary hearing. I don’t know why they can’t just use her statement. The shrink is testifying also I believe.

  • Fred
    Jan 29, 2007 at 10:15 am

    It was also reprted that the girl did a run through with the D.A. to get her comfortable. I do know that in the past, if children are afraid, they can take the defendants out and have them watch via closed circuit monitors. I don’t agree with using her, but I need to feel that they are going to be cautious with her feelings.

  • Fred
    Jan 29, 2007 at 10:22 am

    I just went to http://www.wbay.com and the D.A. did say (there is a video) that if the girl feels any bit of intimidation, they will ask the parents to be either moved out of sight or out of the room.

  • linda k
    Jan 30, 2007 at 10:42 am

    I find it interesting that the only public comments that are coming from these two are from Lynn. Doesn’t Clint have anything to say about this? Hmmm…makes you wonder if he has EVER had anything to say about what goes on in the home?

    Now this is an opinion based on heresay so please take it with a grain of salt but when Clint was in the band, Frenzy, and was married to his ex-wife things with the band were supposedly “cool” but then they get divorced and in pops Lynn and then it’s like Yoko Ono transcended into her body and things are no longer “cool”. This is what I gathered from one of the other band member’s significant other. Of course the guys wouldn’t say anything. Kinda makes you wonder why Kelly left the band? Now, there was most likely way more to this than just Lynn BUT it sure did make me wonder just what kind of person she was and what kind of hold she had on Clint.

    I am absolutely in no way defending him but I really do not understand for the life of me how he could have let this happen. He has always struck me as a pretty decent guy. He spoke about his daughter whenever I saw him at the shows and actually kinda went on about her and how wonderful of a good girl she was and how big she was getting…just growing up too quick.

    Such a shame:( He really seemed to care for her so very much.

  • linda k
    Jan 30, 2007 at 10:07 pm

    If you go to the Oshkosh Northwestern’s website, there is a link to the girl’s testimony from today. Good God it is so sad. I actually cried as I watched it (I am NOT an easy crier). What really got me was the part about her having to curl up in the corner to keep warm after they took away her blanket.

    I just wanted to jump through the computer screen and strangle Lynn and smack Clint right upside his head!

    For the videao clip go to: “Girl Testifies About Confinement, Parents Bound Over For Trial” and click on the More On This Topic for the video

    http://www.thenorthwestern.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

  • Fred
    Jan 31, 2007 at 7:17 am

    I would like to say that I am so proud of the way this child with “ODD” and some other ridiculious “disorder” handled herself during testimony. If she was as nearly as “bad” as the defense implys (ie sending her out of state or even the COUNTRY for school) she would not have been so honest.
    I have such issues with the “diagnosis” with this doctor. I know other people who go to him and think he’s Gods gift for their children. I wonder if he diagnosed her, or did Lynn have a diagnosis when she first went to see him. She could have easily manufactured a problem and told the Dr. that this is what “others” diagnosed her with. Not that I’m letting the Dr. off. Does he really expect us to believe that he saw zero warning signs?
    I know I’m going on, but I cannot get it through my thick skull that someone can do this to a child! I feel bad when my kids are in time out for 10 minutes! Common sense dictates that even if a Dr. told you to “ground” your child for a long period, you would question him. I question my doctor when he perscribes anti-biotics! Why wouldn’t you do the same for your child!
    As a parent, you are your childs only advocate. They cannot see a Dr. without your permission or knowledge. They usually don’t speak for themelves. Who was speaking for her? Her crazy, controlling, self-centered step-mother. Where was the dad? Why didn’t he take her? Why did he believe everything this woman said at face value? Where are his balls? At this point, it looks as if he doesn’t see anything wrong with the punishment they doled out. Lynn sat in the courtroom with a very self-satisfied smirk on her face.

  • Clint and Lynn Engstrom to be Evicted from Their House - from Parents Behaving Badly by Jay Andrew Allen
    Feb 1, 2007 at 4:57 pm

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  • Jared Klaus
    Feb 2, 2007 at 8:54 am

    RE: Mershona Parshall. Anybody with information about this woman please call me. I’m a reporter in Cleveland, and I’m researching her use of attachment therapy. Please email jared.klaus@clevescene.com or call 216-802-7272

    Thanks

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  • Fred
    Feb 5, 2007 at 10:06 am

    OH MY GOD! A judge just reduced their bond from $25,000 to a $10,000 signature bond (see http://www.thenorthwestern.com) and they are not out on their own “good word.” Can you believe that?

  • unknown
    Feb 12, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    This is WRONG, and I mean what is on this site. These people were doing the right thing. This is just over zealous social worker. The girl is quoted as saying she “chose” not to behave. Confinement of someone who will not conform is demanded when you are 18+ but unacceptable when 18-? They are innocent, will be acquitted, and I hope they sue the whole damned bunch of you.

  • Fred
    Feb 12, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    unknown,
    Are you saying that the girl commited some sort of crime? The last time I checked, children were not “confined” for misbehaving. You seem to think that an adult commiting a crime is the same thing. Grow up! She is a CHILD! They are NOT innocent, by their own words, so please spare me your rant.

  • unknown
    Feb 13, 2007 at 6:30 am

    Here’s what I take from the articles thus far.

    1. The girl is DEFIANT.

    2. The parents chose not to beat her.

    3. She repeatedly spit at the mother and in the mother/s food.

    4. She was NOT LOCKED in her room.

    You child refuses to do what you tell them. “Sit down and eat.” You child rebels, throws a tantrum, and spits in your plate. You are left with only two options, do nothing, in which case the child learns that they ARE IN CONTROL, and that there ARE NO CONSEQUENCES to inappropriate/bad actions. ON THE OTHER HAND, you take control inform the child the action was unacceptable, and that he/she must go to their room until they can act civilized.

    EVERY psychiatrist or sociologist, including Dr. Phil, will tell you the second option is correct. This IS what these parents did. They removed her clothes because she would tear them up and piss on them. They removed her toys, because this was to be a restriction, not a vacation. They inform her that she can rejoin the family as soon as she decides to behave. Again, this is EXACTLY what EVERY psychiatrist or sociologist, including Dr. Phil, will tell you to do.

    The girl decides she IS in control, so she repeatedly pisses the bed. Again, this is a CONTROL thing, and EVERY psychiatrist or sociologist, including Dr. Phil, will tell you that troubled children do this. When asked why she wouldn’t behave for the short 2-day requirement, her reply, “I don’t want to give in.”

    EVERY psychiatrist or sociologist, including Dr. Phil, will tell you parents, not children, need to be in control. These parents did not beat this child, they did not beat any of the other children, and for anyone to classify them in with a group a child beaters and murderers, before a conviction, which there won’t be, is ridiculous and anti-American.

    This girl knew EXACTLY what she was doing, and the message this sends to EVERY child, is disrespect your parents as much as possible, because if they try to do anything they will be thrown in jail. That’s exactly what happened here, and the entire system should be ashamed.

  • someone looking in
    Feb 13, 2007 at 6:39 am

    Unknown I cant believe you are a person it doesnt matter what the child did here she had a reason does not mean a parent a given right by god gives the parents right to put her in a room for that many hours a day timed bathroom breaks cant eat what everyone else is eating and sometimes not eat at all that she had to try to sneak out and get food you got to be kidding me and where did it ever say that this girl pissed on her clothes hmmmmm i wonder u are unknown maybe you are someone in this matter

  • chelse
    Feb 13, 2007 at 7:25 am

    this is the saddest thing ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • chelse
    Feb 13, 2007 at 7:25 am

    omg who could do this.

  • Fred
    Feb 13, 2007 at 10:24 am

    Unknown,

    Your post makes me wonder of your true identity. I have never read most of the things that you say that you read.

    Now to respond:
    1. Even if a child is “DEFIANT” I guarantee that even Dr. Phil wouldn’t condone an extended “grounding” like the one she has been through. Don’t give me that that crap.

    2. “The parents chose not to beat her.” You have got to be kidding me. Who do you think you are? Are you insane? I can tell you if I lived in those kind of conditions, I would be VERY defiant, and to think “okay, they didn’t beat her” You are out of your mind. What is wrong with you? I can only hope that she gets ALL the help she needs and has to NEVER see her “parents” again.

    3.I would spit if this was my life. I never read or heard of the child spitting at Lynn. Makes me wonder who you are.

    4.There was a lock on the door. On the outside. The threat was there. Enough said. The other 3 kids had no locks on their doors.

    I also want to let you know that this is a public forum. Where we are allowed to discuss matters placed in front of us. It’s just like going to the local coffee shop and discussing it there. So far nothing that has been posted has been speculation, only facts. Good luck on that law suit!

  • unknown
    Feb 13, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    According to court records, the girl’s younger stepbrother — one of three other children in the Engstrom home — told police the teen had been kept in her room about 19 hours a day for months for lying and other behavior, such as spitting in his mother’s food.

    “as punishment for bad behavior that included hitting, kicking, lying”

    The girl said she had to be good for two days in a row for the punishment to end, but the most she could manage was one day

    “the girl said Tuesday that the door to her room was never locked”

    But the girl said she stole food, had a bad attitude and misbehaved at home. Korger said he asked her why she didn’t behave for two days to end the grounding. Her response?

    “Mostly things like, ’I am not sure. I don’t want to give in,“’ the doctor said.

    “just sitting on my bed, unless I did chores or I was called to eat.”

    Korger treated the girl for about a year for three emotional disorders. When she didn’t seem to make much progress in individual therapy sessions, he recommended the family either bring a counselor into the home and maybe remove the child to residential treatment, he said, describing the girl as “very difficult to parent.”

    The above are all taken from various online news sites.

    She gets called to the table and then spits in the mothers food. Please tell me, if you had spit in your mother’s plate, what would your daddy have done?

    Has anybody on here seen what “residential” treatment is like? Visit Mendota some time, they keep the kids LOCKED in the room, not just a so-called threat. Talk to a child psychologist, one that specializes in EXTREME cases. They WILL verify that typical behavior of the child is to soil themselves as a way of demonstrating they are IN CONTROL. Ever read Lord of the Flies? What happens when the children are in control? Why are teachers, and not students, in control in the classroom?

    This whole thing is about control, and now that the state has stepped in, this child is in control and I challenge anyone to find a reputable psychiatrist or sociologist who will give a written opinion stating society is best served when children are in control.

    Equating someone who is innocent and physically harmed no one to those who have beaten, and murdered fits the definition of defamation of character.

  • unknown
    Feb 13, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    “You didn’t go potty on your mattress?” Hildebrand asked the girl, who responded “no.”

    Later, Detective Jim Busha of the Oshkosh Police Department testified that he observed a heavily stained mattress in the room and that he could “smell what appeared to be urine in the bed.”

    Oops, missed this one, see the police say one thing, the kid another. This right here is enough to draw the whole case into question. I still say overzealous prosecution.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 13, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    I’m going to guess that you are not just someone who reads the “articles” but that you are infact someone very close to said defendents. With that in mind….girl was treated for three disorders? If her “mother” was the one exchanging the info about the child with the doctors….I question whether or not the child REALLY has a problem in the first place. That can be backed up by the fact that NO ONE, I mean NO ONE has ever had a problem with her except “mommy dearest”
    Maybe the child was sleeping on a used mattress. It could have been second hand. And if she did urinate on the bed…..it should have been her “parents” bed instead.

  • someone looking in
    Feb 13, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    big momma i agree with you 100% but what gets me is that you have people like this out there.They dont read or learn what people are saying,he made a comment about the girl peeing on her clothes when that was never stated just peeing on the mattress and why people would think that this is ok punishment to children when it was stated that the girl did this to her step mother and her father but not at school or grandparents or school so that would say that the step mother has done something that has turned the child this way and the child is gonna act that way towards the father because he didnt protect that child from the step mother always listened to the step mother so the girl lost trust with him and was angry with him i know if some woman came into my life and did that i beleive i would act the same way

  • linda k
    Feb 14, 2007 at 6:29 am

    Does anyone else find it interesting that Lynn was released from jail just a few days ago and now this “unknown” person comes here only to attack anything this child has said? Not to mention this person has also brought forth information that I have never seen in any of the articles? I have not seen anything in the media
    about the girl ripping her clothes and urinating on them. There are many things this “unknown” person seems to know…things that only a person who was in the courtroom would know, perhaps?

    Hmmm…makes you wonder, doesn’t it? Sounds like a guilty conscienced person to me!

    What do you think, Fred? You think Lynn “found” us?

  • Fred
    Feb 14, 2007 at 7:37 am

    My goodness Linda K - that was my EXACT thought! Why we must be on the same wavelength!

    To respond to the child saying that she didn’t urinate on her mattress, Would you? I mean she’s 13, I wouldn’t admit to that as an adult! How would you like to be known not only as the “girl that was locked up,” but also as the “girl who peed her bed.”

    Again I agree with both bigmomma and someonelookingin. According to all reports she only “misbehaved” with Lynn or Clint. I have a very hard time understanding ANY diagnosis that is only symptomatic with the parents. Granted my kids act up more at home than anywhere else, but I wouldn’t consider them “bad” for it. I think thats a normal way to act. Its when they act inappropriately with others as well, that I would seek external help. (ie, school counselors, pediatrician, then go from there) Not “she’s bad at home so lets send her away.” It sounds like Lynn had some competition for attention and she did everything in her power to “remove” the threat.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 14, 2007 at 8:08 am

    “Unknown”…..interesting the tone of your post. Interesting the use of language in your post. When I talk about a child, I do not use words such as “piss” and especially not in a “tone.” It is this attitude, this line of thinking that cause a person to “lock” children up like this. I’ve read and re-read your post and am amazed at how you talk about this girl. You talk like she is a piece of trash. You talk about her actions (if there really were any) with an attitude of discust. A parent or someone who loves a child will look beyond “actions” and try to see what is going on under there. Please don’t try and say that the Engstrom’s cared because they took her to a shrink. If one of my children is having a hard time behaviorly…it breaks my heart. I don’t hear that kind of concern coming from them or from you for that matter. I have heard no public statement from the Engstrom’s lawyers that state their concern for the child, or of them inquiring about what has happened to her. All I have heard is a bunch covering of their tracks. Of justification, or attempts to justify their behavior. Clint and Lynn are the ones who have the behavior problem. It is horrid that people like you will get on this site and talk about this girl in the way that you have, using the language you have in the tone that you mean for it to be heard. I hope you don’t talk to your own children this way.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 14, 2007 at 8:28 am

    I’m sorry everyone but I must rant. This really makes me angry. Why would anyone defend these king of actions? Call Dr.Phil and see if he would EVER condone taking something to this extreme? I know he has talked about taking away things as punishment. Things that would be considered a non-needed item. No one would condone taking away BASIC human affection or attention. Didn’t Hitler try these kind of experiments in concentration camps on Jewish babies? How long does it take the average parent to figure out that a form of punishment is NOT working? To compare this girl to an adult in jail is ridiculous. What in the world did she do that would equate to her being in jail or deserve that comparison? How stupid. What kind of mentality do you have “unknown” ??? I have heard of FAR more troulbled teens who were treated better. I have yet to hear what her “offense” was that landed her in this type of TORTURE anyway. My own children are defiant. My kids spit. It happens. If I treated my dogs better than them, it’s possible they would spit in my food too. It was the least this child could do in my opinion. Not one of my kids is “behaved” for 2 days straight. I think I’m safe to assume that they even are disobediant willfully lots of times. I guess “unknown” is of the mindset that we lock our kids up in their rooms if they do not act like little robots. After we begin to lock them up, we go to a couple of doctors to make it look good, but don’t tell them the whole story? How insane. It is just stupid that anyone would even think to act this way or to back it up.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 14, 2007 at 8:35 am

    Oh I forgot. This girl wasn’t beat. Whoopdee do-do. Mental abuse is FAR FAR more damaging than physical abuse. A wound to the spirit is so much more painful than a swing of the fist. Oh my gosh this is discusting. What are you thinking unknown?

  • bigmomma
    Feb 14, 2007 at 8:38 am

    What did this girl do that would land her in a place like Mendota for me to even compare it to? What a flipping idiot.

  • Fred
    Feb 15, 2007 at 6:40 am

    bigmomma - Rant all you like. You haven’t said a single thing that I haven’t thought or said myself. I agree that my children have never “behaved” for 2 days, and I don’t think that is possible. Not even adults behave for 2 days. Do we do EVERYTHING we are asked to do? No, because that would be impossible, but a child is supposed to? Thats not realistic. I am so tired of hearing about poor Lynn and her sorry self. You are right - they have never wondered about the well being of this girl. They can ask through their lawyers, but choose not to do so. These are 2 very self invloved people who only care about themselves (listen to Lynn’s testimony during the restraining order hearing, it was all about her, never once about the child.) I hope that they are locked up for a damn long time, and the child can go on to be an amazing, fun, happy girl, that I know she can be.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 15, 2007 at 9:16 am

    Fred,
    Do you question the diagnoses as I do for this girl? The attatchment disorder…that I kind of understand. But, when you are denied the right to see people you love, it can mess with your head. Hopefully people will stop playing these games now and allow her to love and to be loved. I think Clint and Lynn are control freaks. If they had such problems with her, they should have called family…oh yeah…they decided they didn’t like any family members any more so that wasn’t an option. Could any issue you have with any of them possibly be so bad that you would resort to locking his child up? They couldn’t get over themselves and call on family? IF I had a child that “bad” I would do whatever it took. Clint and Lynn know what was causing this girl’s emotional distress. I know they know. I bet you do too, from the sounds of your posts. What sickens me is that they caused this, and are blaming it on her. They cut her off from everyone who loved her and then wondered why she geeked out. I don’t buy their defense. I know why she rebelled. She is a strong girl, extremely bright and beautiful. She is going to make it. I don’t really believe that she has any of these disorders…I think that she needs time to heal….to ask some questions and get some answers, and most importantly to be loved.

  • someone looking in
    Feb 15, 2007 at 9:27 am

    Fred I agree with you all the way here and thank you so much for saying what you did means alot and its also nice to know that there are human beings out there not just monsters

  • Fred
    Feb 15, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    bigmomma
    I also wonder about the diagnosis. Was Lynn present during therapy? That is not uncommon with younger children, but it does make me wonder, How is she supposed to open up with her abuser right next to her?
    We are only human, so that we are made with mistakes. Thats what makes us who we are. Its what we do with what we are given that makes us “normal” or “monsters” Thats life and we choose our paths. They choose poorly.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 15, 2007 at 6:02 pm

    Fred,
    I thik that the girl only spent a few minutes alone with the doc a session. The rest of the time was with Lynn/girl. I think, atleast that is my understanding. I think she had 15 minutes alone with the shrink a session. Can we give girl a nickname? I hate calling her “the girl.”
    I’m going to call her Sunshine from here on out.
    It’s from the beatles song “Here comes the sun”……..

  • Fred
    Feb 16, 2007 at 6:37 am

    Do you really think that’s a good way to understand a child? Even by all accounts if Sunshine had any of these issues, they were primaraly aimed at Lynn. I would think that the therapist would want to keep them separate. Thats just me. Maybe thats not why I’m a therapist and only a regular Joe.

    I really hope the judge does not let the parents have contact w/each other. The influence Lynn has over this entire situation is ridiculous as it is, and this would just make it worse. Maybe being apart from Lynn, Clint will realize what they put Sunshine through and come to his senses. I can’t see hinm doing that if Lynn is in the picture.

  • someone looking in
    Feb 16, 2007 at 7:17 am

    I think its wonderful that you have named her sunshine fred and bigmomma because thats what she is a ray of sunshine

  • Fred
    Feb 16, 2007 at 7:37 am

    Thank bigmomma. and I agree she is

  • linda k
    Feb 16, 2007 at 7:49 am

    I just wanted to comment on the whole do whatever it takes no matter what thing…

    I have a daughter. She was possibly molested by her bio-father’s then-girlfriend, now wife. My daughter had so many problems it was unreal. From the age of 3 and by the age of 6, she had been hospitalized in-patient in two psych hospitals, kicked out of about 6 daycares, attended three elementary schools, saw three psychiatrists, and had been placed on about 4-6 different meds (not all at the same time, just different ones). She was violent, aggressive, threatened to kill her younger sister, uncontrollable at times…you get the idea.

    Why tell you this? I will tell you why!!!

    I did not lock her in her room…I did not punish her for what she had gone through with her bio-father. I worked and worked and worked with her. Then I worked with her come more!!! I was a single mother (divorced from her “father”) with two young children, taking the older to all sorts of doctor visits and hospitals stays. Fighting with insurance companies for coverage, taking care of an infant and a three year old with MAJOR issues.

    I could have lost my mind (think I may have along there somewhere…) but I did NOT abuse her for it and I did everything I could to HELP her.

    So when Lynn comes out with this excuse of they had to do it because she was defiant and spit in her food and sneaked food and simply didn’t behave, I don’t go for it because I have BEEN THERE and more!!! And what’s worse, is she had the help of her HUSBAND. My ex didn’t so much as call the 1-800 number to see how his own daughter was doing when she was hospitalized!

    So she can sit and spew whatever garbage she wants and it will NEVER convince ME that she was anywhere NEAR justified in her actions.

    And for the record…NO doctor ever told me to confine my child to a room for days on end or any of the other things that Lynn claims Dr. Korger told her to do. And, no, he was not one of my daughter’s doctors. I never had a doctor tell me to do anything like that and my daughter was literally homicidal! That how we got her hospitalized…she was more violent than you could ever imagine and young child being. But then again, I suppose if I were allegedly molested by my 28 year old father’s 16 year old girlfriend, I would rage, too…

    Sorry for the rant…that Lynn just enrages me so!

  • someone looking in
    Feb 16, 2007 at 7:57 am

    WOW Linda have to say that is rough but thank god you are a strong person and love your child and if Cling and Lynn supposely loved sunshine they would of kept trying and trying never giving up if they would of stopped being selfish maybe things would be better and sunshine wouldnt be going threw what she is now its people like you that god smiles at because of your strength and love for your child

  • linda k
    Feb 16, 2007 at 9:14 am

    And it just goes to show what a parent’s love and patience can accomplish…I have since remarried and my daughter is now a pretty well-adjusted little girl (she still has her “days”). My husband adopted her and my younger daughter and they are so thrilled to finally have a father.

    I think my ex and Lynn would make a tremendous couple…evil to the core.

    No excuse Lynn or Clint could come up with would be sufficient for me. Better hope I don’t end up on the jury (even though I know I would have to be honest on get dismissed for prejudice)!!!

  • linda k
    Feb 16, 2007 at 9:15 am

    And it just goes to show what a parent’s love and patience can accomplish…I have since remarried and my daughter is now a pretty well-adjusted little girl (she still has her “days”). My husband adopted her and my younger daughter and they are so thrilled to finally have a father.

    I think my ex and Lynn would make a tremendous couple…evil to the core.

    No excuse Lynn or Clint could come up with would be sufficient for me. Better hope I don’t end up on the jury (even though I know I would have to be honest and get dismissed for prejudice)!!!

  • bigmomma
    Feb 16, 2007 at 9:37 am

    I have to say I find it funny that Clint and Lynn want to see each other. What’s the matter? They don’t like being isolated away from people they love? It is to me, in a sense, them feeling that same seperation they have inflicted on Sunshine. Being locked away in jail, away from loved ones. Only they did commit a crime, Sunshine has been treated as a criminal just for being part of her fathers and step mothers self absorbed lives.
    Linda, you sound like an amazing Mommy. I have been through some interesting times as a Mom myself. But, when a parent faces a difficult time they ask for help, not lock the problem up. Usually it is family. When I face a parenting problem that I can’t handle, I call on loved ones who know us personally. For Sunshine, part of her punishment was being kept away from loved ones. How do you make a child earn love? If you are good for two days, then I’ll love you? How did they look themselves in the mirror? When the other 3 kids were showered with affection….even the joy of eating with your family….how did Clint and Lynn feel knowing that Sunshine wasn’t there? I just don’t understand how they brought themselves to think they were helping her. It makes no sense. And it appears that even now….they still don’t care.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 16, 2007 at 9:47 am

    Fred,
    I don’t think that that is a good way to understand a child….sometimes an average joe would be a better therapist. One can get caught up in their degree, their “specialty” and it can cloud their vision in my view. Sometimes, well most times, common sense is all that is needed. Even I can figure out that if there is not a problem ANYWHERE else, only at home, then the problem must be at home. That is when you start getting school therapists involved, anyone you can to get the child to talk. But Sunshine was pulled out of school, kept isolated, her whereabouts lied about. I wonder why? Maybe because there wasn’t a problem other than with mommy dearest, and they knew what they were doing was wrong? I don’t know….I’m pretty average myself. Why didn’t Korger seek school records….talk with teachers? Maybe someone could have been alerted to a problem sooner.

  • Fred
    Feb 16, 2007 at 10:32 am

    linda k,
    my heart go out to you. You have an amazing strenght that I’m sure has been called upon many times. God Bless you and yours. Having a “difficult” child myself, I could never imagine what your daughter and your family has been through. I sometimes have to take a step back and remember that they are just kids, being kids.
    I would LOVE to be on that jury myself, but would get dismissed also.

    I took my son to a behaviorist when he was young and even though my guts was telling me something was up, was told that he’s just being a boy. Later (4 years) we got a correct diagnosis and are doing great! Bigmomma, you are right. Common sense has to dictate. What I don’t understand is that there were so many warning signs, that the school or Dr. Korger never put the pieces together. The extended family did everything that they could do, but were completely shut out of Sunshines life. I place no blame with them. I blame Lynn, Clint, Dr. Korger, and the School. That may be harsh, but so many things were so out of place, and not any of these “professionals” realized it.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 16, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    I’m almost out of words here. I don’t even know what to say…..so the no contact was lifted. All I can say is that I hope this isn’t a situation where the child is placed back in the care of the parents on account of some “legality.”
    The way this is going and being handled is horrid. There is much I wish I could say…for privacy sake I cannot. Whatever the courts do with the “parents” whatever. The concern here should be what happens to Sunshine…I sure hope these people in charge start pulling their heads out of their rear-ends.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 16, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Please don’t misunderstand my post, I should have been clearer. While the parents still don’t have contact with the child, the way they are getting “eased” up on makes me wonder if they will get Sunshine back on some technacality.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 16, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    So, here I go ranting again. Said defendents embrace and leave the courtroom holding hands. It’s so nice that they are allowed the right to “love” each other while Clint’s daughter wasn’t even allowed to love anything, not even the family pets. Oh, please forgive me. She was allowed to clean the feces. How does this work? What is going on in that city? Sunshine is dealing with years of who knows what, and now “daddy gets to get his groove on”. What a love story. Sounds like how things work in this day and age.
    I’m just discusted. They run to each other, but they still haven’t publicly said anything about concern for their daughter? Nothing????? Not even their lawyers? Grow some balls Clint! Make a choice over what is more important to you. Ooooh this is ridiculous. Looks to me like wifey poo comes first.

  • Fred
    Feb 16, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    bigmomma,
    I agree I almost have nothing left to say! I would love to spew forth, so to speak, but can’t for privacy sakes. The 2 people are ridiculous. They have more concern for their own well being than for anyone else. I don’t think that Clint can grow balls, because they’re in Lynn’s purse!
    This really makes me rethink our justice system. I have almost no faith left. I fear for Sunshine being put back into those monsters hands. Can yuo imagine?
    Also, has anyone else noticed the lack of “unknown” since the speculations of his/her identity? Makes you think!

  • bigmomma
    Feb 16, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    I was wondering myself where the lovely unknown has been…..I cannot imagine Sunshine being put back into their care. One would hope if the courts allow them to get away with this that hopefully Social Services would step in. I think Sunshine should have a lot to say about what happens to her in the coming months. It’s about time her voice was heard instead of all these grown ups thinking they know best. We all see what happens when some people “know best.” Sunshine is a tough girl, hopefully she will find someone she can confide in and trust so that healing can begin.

  • linda k
    Feb 17, 2007 at 9:05 am

    If Sunshine’s hopes and future rests on the ability of the county’s social services then she is in for some real trouble.

    This county needs some revamping of it’s child protective services. And what is the judge’s deal? Why? Why allow them to have contact?

    And notice Lynn’s trial is before Clint’s? Hmmmm I wonder how much further Clint can bend over for Lynn to you-know-what him!

  • someone looking in
    Feb 17, 2007 at 9:12 am

    Linda we as human beings know that thats never gonna happen its us with common sense know that things need to be changed.You have all theses legal people out there thinking that they went to so many years of schooling know whats best for people and what they order is what is needed to fix things and we know its not does it make us sick that they allow this to go on and not even put the person that it affects the most into the matter here no one has even asked sunshine what she wants sunshine has a voice but of course these legal people wont let her speak at all

  • unknown
    Feb 17, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    It took me this long to get recover from the uncontrollable laughter that overcame me upon reading some of these posts.

    If you ask you parents what their grandparents would have done with this child. All will answer “a good willow stick” or something like that. Spanking you child is NOT illegal, and a little corporal punishment when she was younger would have gone a long way.

  • someone looking in
    Feb 17, 2007 at 1:28 pm

    Ok is anyone here talking about spanking a child we are talking about a child that has been in her room for almost two years with little food no books to read hardly any clothes or bedding when a child is sent to their room for being naughty which most parents have done yes they take away the stuff that is fun to them but come on books clothes and yes unknown u can even ask Dr.Phil on this this is not right by all means and for you to sit there and say it took you this long to get over laughing I think you are one sick person your self think you need alot help go to a site that people care for your comments because im sure everyone here will agree that we dont care for your comments

  • linda k
    Feb 17, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    Unknown…

    Yes, you are right in that spanking is not illegal. However, in this case it is not an issue of spanking. It is far more severe and it is abuse. Period.

    If this were a simple case of spanking then I would side with Clint and Lynn and defend their actions. By their own admission, this is not what happened. I simply cannot support them and in the end I hope the justice system prevails and they are punished.

    And for you to laugh about posts regarding such a sad subject really makes me wonder what kind of person you are. It really solidifies that thought that you are, in fact, Lynn Engstrom, and you have no conscience. That’s what sociopaths and narcisistic people lack…conscience.

    The things you say really make you sound like Lynn.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 17, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Maybe what Sunshine needed was her Grandparents!

  • bigmomma
    Feb 17, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    I’m sorry laughing unknown…I have to ask. Defend the isolation Sunshine. Defend the rest of the police report, or the parents own admission. I don’t think that dad ever even met the shrink.
    I have a handicapped child who is prone to tantrums. BIG tantrums. Should I lock her up for a few years? Should we deny her affection? Well, atleast till she can behave for 2 days? So, if Sunshine has some “mental disorders” that would in effect make her in some way handicapped. So, your solution is locking her away? Lying to the shrink about the situation at home is probably a good idea too huh? Telling her that her friends all hate her. Locks on doors. Video cameras? You are a sick, cowardly, inhumane kind of person if you feel that is appropriate. Maybe the money that was taken from churches should have been put towards the right kind of treatment if that what was really needed. I don’t for one second believe that there is anything wrong with Sunshine other than she dislikes her step mother for some reason…if I was Sunshine, I’d spit in her food too. Heck, I would do it now. The way you talk about this child like she is nothing is discusting. You don’t deserve the right to know or speak of her in any way.

  • unknown
    Feb 17, 2007 at 6:33 pm

    We sit down at the table together. We eat dinner together, which is what a family does. A child disrupts the dinner and spits in ma’s plate. The parent MUST react. Failure to do so means the other children WILL imitate the same behavior. Therefore, you tell the child to go to her room and stay there until she can behave. At that point, the parent no longer determines the length of the punishment, the child does. Every child psychologist will tell you that children 7 or 8 on up SHOULD be given choices.

    These same psychologists will tell you that each child should have a chore in the home as it will help the children to see that we, the family, succeed together. When the child again, chooses NOT to participate, then you give them the choice of chores or sit in your room. She wasn’t stealing food because they didn’t feed her, she (the child) chose not to eat what was served, and she chose to spit in the parent’s plate. She chose to hit, she chose to kick, and she knew what the result would be. This child chose to sit in her room, her own words and the words of the siblings absolutely clarify the door was NOT LOCKED.

    I will also remind you of the testimony about why she didn’t behave for the two days. It wasn’t because she couldn’t but “I don’t want to,” a choice. The girl chose to sit in her room instead of being a member of the family. Yes, the parents took the toys out because it wasn’t supposed to be go play Nintendo instead of doing chores, and I’m sure they removed the clothes for a similar reason, but the child IS the one who chose not to comply.

    I find nothing humorous about this over zealous prosecution and I find nothing humorous about a small group of people attacking someone with a different point of view. What is humorous is the 4 or 5 posters on here that are so into the “oh what a perfect child mentality” that not only can they not see the other side but they also accuse me of being one of the parents, now that’s funny.

  • someone looking in
    Feb 17, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    Ok I have a few things to say here to you unknown you are stupid and idiot and you need to shut your mouth. If you have such intimate knowledge of sunshine{thats what we humans call her not child}what {crime} did sunshine commit here.What you are saying that sunshine did does not equal the punishment.Who chose to tell the doctor what supposely was going on? Who chose to take sunshine out of school? Who chose not to tell family memebers where she was living? Sure wasnt sunshine was mommy dearest.You say that 7 or 8 yr olds and up should be given choices to make for what the parent to make the choice of a child to steal food or to sneak into a room to watch tv becasue she chose to misbehave.Lets cut the crap here and lets see why did she do this just for mommy dearest and her father well if you want to call him that. Why does a child act out just like adults do because they arent getting their way but there are better ways to deal with it. I want to know why was sunshine pulled out of school take her education away. Why tell her that her friends hate her. Why deny her blankets.I have three kids and my god if they behaved like you think kids should my life would be boring. You learn from your kids thats why god gave people the right to have kids to teach you about life and how to teach them to be good people. You love them when they are good or bad when they spit pee or hide in their room. Kids dont come with a manual u have to learn yourself and if you are having problems then you go to family thats what family is suppose to be about. Dare you to go and talk to a priest and see what he or she would tell you about this bet you you will be completely wrong.

  • bigmomma
    Feb 17, 2007 at 10:37 pm

    If Sunshine chose to stay in her room, then there would be no need for a lock. Whether that lock was used or not, still there would be no need for one. So, I don’t believe what you say there. Load of crap. It is not unheard of for a preteen or teen to decide that they hate their parents for the night, or whatever, and go hide away in their room. It does not go on like that for 2 years. It is not unheard of for a child of any age to decide that they do not like what was made for dinner and choose not to eat. My kids do it all the time. They are not ever denied food though. EVER. The worst that happens is that they lose dessert. They don’t have to skip two meals if they don’t answer me on time. I have made a child leave the table for being a large disruption to the rest of the family. They still are not denied the right to eat what we are eating or lose the right to eat at all. I call that cruel and inhumane. Big deal, they fed her. The dogs probably ate better.
    When a child gets to the point that they are pulling out their hair, claiming that they are hearing voices, picking their skin and nails to nothing….something has got to give. It didn’t happen over night either, so I don’t find myself easily swayed because they took her to Sanit Elizabeths. It has got to be pretty bad for that to happen and to that extreme.
    Children desire to be loved and accepted. The only children I can see that tend on the whole to shun affection are autistic kids, but even they desire affection, but not in the usual way. They also do all these things that you claim Sunshine did. Only a sicko locks them up for it. And as I said, if Sunshine has “disorders” then she is handicapped in a sense and the answer to her treatment would not be the way these people handled it. If that is she actually has any legitimate disorder. That could also be why Korger says he never said that she should be “grounded” the way they grounded her. According to him that is not the help he prescribed. He was lied to also about the conditions under which the child was living. Do you have a response for that “unknown”? Why does Mommy dearest lie to other parents about the child’s whereabouts? why tell them that she was away at some detention center place as was stated in court?
    If things were so bad, why was there not reaching out to people? Why go to doctors and therapists if you are going to lie to them? Because mommy dearest was untruthful about so much to the doctors, I just can’t believe that she is being over zealously persecuted here. If you lie, you are covering something up. If you are covering something up, you are not an innocent over zealously persecuted victim. Spew your crap somewhere where child abusing people are welcomed.
    You very obviously have no love for Sunshine and see her as a burden and a “problem” that needed to be locked up and put away somewhere where she would not be in your way. Obviously your desire for control and obedience is a desire that over rides mercy and compassion on a child. To you love is something you withhold if perfection is not achieved. What these people were trying to accomplish…I don’t think I’ll ever understand. Battle of the wills is something every parent faces. It is another story when you go out of your way to break their spirit. How dare you talk about her as if she deserved this. Punishment to this extreme? You are vile.

  • unknown
    Feb 18, 2007 at 7:41 am

    Some more things to think about, you put the child to bed at 8:00 PM. The child sleeps until 6:00 AM the next morning. Sometimes the child will wonder the house, so you close the door or put a safety gate up to keep the child in their room. Congratulations, you are now a criminal because you lock you child up for 10 hours daily. Why do you do this, for the same reason you strap you child in a car seat, SAFETY.

    We also know, from the girl’s own statements, supported by the other children, she was NOT LOCKED IN the room.

    I never said the child committed any crime, my points has always been:

    1. There are different parenting styles.
    2. The system (government) should have given more help.
    3. This is an over zealous prosecution.
    4. There is another side to this whole story.

    Did the parents go overboard here, that’s for the jury to decide, not the few on here who do not know ALL the facts. For people to come on here and compare these people to murderers and molesters, especially without a conviction is wrong.

    What about the other kids in the family did any of you ever stop to think how your comments about their parents might affect them? NO. That shows just how self-centered and self-righteous you think you are.

    I’m glad to see you are starting to realize you just might be wrong because once people run out of valid points to debate, they always switch to name calling and insults and this thread has now reached that point.

  • Fred
    Feb 18, 2007 at 9:34 am

    Unknown, If I could, I would seriously like to take you andgive you just 1 week of Sunshines punishment. Then you can tell me how great seh had it. To your points:

    1. Yes there are different parneting styles, but socieaty does not recognize isolation and deprivation as a source of punishment. This is considered my the erst of the world as torture.

    2. If you lie, then what should the system do? They got free mo