Parents Behaving Badly

199 opinions for Pampering Parents Wage War Against Basketball Coach

• Karen
  Oct 23, 2006 at 8:10 pm

  We knew a sophmore in high school that had $150 in parking fees from the school he attended. He had bought a senior parking pass from a senior so that he could park in the senior lot and he got caught. He could sit in I.S.S. for 3 days and not play baseball or he could pay the $150. His dad paid the $150 for him so that his son could play baseball. That’s just another lesson of parents bailing out their kids and babying them. Another reason why kids acts the way they do.

• Susan Valenzuela
  Oct 25, 2006 at 12:17 pm

  It amazes me at the small mindednest of everyone out there. The case was NOT ABOUT PLAYING TIME!!! nor was it about her coaching at all. No one wants to know the real story. The truth has been twisted. It was about the abusive treatment of the girls. Ms Nibarger herself knows but doesnt have the dignity to admit how she treated the girls. She lied constantly to the girls and blamed them for the games the team lost. She knows that she threw them outof the gym 45 min early after telling them this is their gym and sacuary come here when ever you have a problem. she threw a player out for doing nothing when her mother lived in oakland and didnt notify her that she was outside waiting. The way she got ready for a big game was to play dodgeball or put the ball in the middle of a blanket and try to throw it into the basket. I have been around basketball for many years and have never seen a team prepare for a game that way. There was no 3 investigations all the parents wanted was a meeting with her after the season and as a school district employee she should have met with them. Instead she gave the letter to the principal who didnt even bother to read it that why it went to the next level. Why dont you people think of how the girls are feeling about all this publicity. Shame on all of you who support Ms. Niabarger just because she is a coach you dont know her. Are you sure she wouldnt do all these things. How do you know! Just because you are a coach doesnt mean you know how to play the game.
  These girls asked there parents for help and you know that if it was your daughter you would do the same so dont even lie about it. Or I guess you would let your daughter come home practice after practice game after game crying and you would do nothing. Shame on you. YOu know you would. If the Castro Valley school district knew how to communicate with their parent none of this would have happened in the first place. Castro Valley are the ones that made all of this happen.

• The Zero Boss
  Oct 25, 2006 at 2:32 pm

  If my daughter were having a hard time, I’d encourage her to make a decision: work it out and see it through, or quit. I’d only lobby for the teacher to be removed if I thought she was demeaning or abusive.

  Sorry, but everything you cite here sounds like a petty grievance. Life is full of them. Teach your kids some degree of resilience, for God sakes, rather than lead them to believe that mommy and daddy will fix all their problems for them.

• The Truth
  Oct 29, 2006 at 8:52 pm

  Susan, your incoherent ranting makes it much harder to understand anything you’re trying to say. What are you actually trying to say? How many teams have you coached? If you’re so qualified to criticize the coach’s methods, perhaps you should apply for the job yourself. The parents are overzealous, pampering idiots who should have been put in their places by the school board, period. If the coach was found to be unfit for the job, she could’ve been replaced. Obviously, there was nothing solid in any of the accusations, so please shut up.

• Karen
  Oct 29, 2006 at 9:07 pm

  I know there are two sides to every story, but it does seem like these parents and students just whined and kept complaining until some kind of action was taken. An investigation was done and nothing was found to be wrong. It seems like they thought they if they just ranted enough then they could get their way.

• The Zero Boss
  Oct 29, 2006 at 9:20 pm

  The Truth: Thanks for observing the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit. (Susan, please take notes.

  Karen - I agree. Some high-powered parents just kept at this until the board caved. Disgraceful.

• Kimmie
  Oct 30, 2006 at 5:32 pm

  Susan - I heard you and your daughter Ashley…oh I mean Sarah on the Bernie Ward show. Maybe YOU should have gotten your stories straight before you called. I know Coach Nibarger and I know the truth….you can’t handle it-or better yet, you don’t know it. Shame on your daughter for making up lies and then telling those lies to you and others. I understand there were many meetings with the other girls…many things were obviously made up together.

  Let me put it this way…imagine that you had been accused of stealing a cell phone from the school locker room. You told the sheriffs department that you didn’t do it…you were checked out 3 times….the last being in front of a judge with 4 students all with matching binders (and they had several meetings in which to make sure that their stories matched). All 4 students then stood in front of the judge and YOU and lied. To try and make it even more believable, they all cried on que for the Judge. They all said that they saw you steal the cell phone.

  Now let’s assume that the judge came back with a verdit. He obviously saw through the lies of the students because he said that you were cleared of any wrong doing…but to protect everyone involved, you could no longer be part of the school band. Lucky for you..you talked the Band Coach into letting you stay on the team. What a nice band coach you must have. But….even with no punishment, the lies that were told about you (especially from students that you had done so much for in the past) hurt more than any punishment could. Coach Nibarger wasn’t so lucky. She not only was punished for “No Wrong Doing”…she also lives with the hurt from your daughter and the other players that had lied to her and the school board.

  Think about it…it’s not fair is it?

  Enough is enough…why doesn’t (Sarah) just move along and transfer to another school so she can forget about all the lies she has told. The guilt is probably killer her about now or she’s actually believing her own lies.

  As for the way the girls are feeling about the publicity….they need to deal with it! You all started it! Coach Nibarger supporters are enjoying the show.

• Karen
  Oct 30, 2006 at 6:27 pm

  As I said before, I don’t know the whole story, but I have been a teacher for a long time. I am still amazed at how gullible parents are and how they will always believe their children. They know their kids lie to them, but when it comes to lies about teachers, parents just think it doesn’t happen.

• Kimmie
  Oct 31, 2006 at 11:58 am

  Karen - I couldn’t agree with you more. It to amazes me how gullible parents are. I too am a parent and by no means are my kids “angels”. All you have to do is step back..look at the facts (or lack of) and know that Coach Nibarger isn’t the monster they lead you to believe. For example…included in these 14 girls who signed the complaint letter…I believe only 3/4 actually played for Coach Nibarger. Most of the players that they persuaded to sign had been cut from the team….so how much do you think they know about the goings on at practice or the games and especially in the locker room? But still - they (the parents) will tell you 14 kids have complaints about Coach Nibarger.

  Also, many of the kids who didn’t sign the letter have been harrased by the others at school for some time.

  No matter how this all pans out (and I don’t expect any of the rules to be lifted..) there will be a large group of Coach Nibarger supporters at the first game at Castro Valley High….I can only speculate that there will be many. At a CV School Board meeting last month there was at least 45 of us there in support of the coach….9 of which spoke on her behalf. There was NO ONE there to speak against the Coach Nibarger. I don’t think anyone thought it would get this big. I bet they are all thinking twice now.

  I just want to thank the SF Chronicle for finally writing about this. Get it some exposure and make the Judge and the other parents and kids to finally take responsibility for their actions.

• Karen
  Oct 31, 2006 at 1:42 pm

  Unfortunately, we have had effects of one teenager saying something and then 4 of their friends having the same complaint. Then you have 4 sets of parents breathing down your neck, all with the same petty complaint. And when I say petty, I do mean petty. It is painful to experience. I’m sure they didn’t expect it to go this far or get this much publicity. You would think they could step back from the situation long enough to realize that all of the kids have the same complaint and that they are all friends. It just seems like a case of, “Well, we’ll ALL go to the school board and then they’ll HAVE to do something”.

• fred
  Nov 1, 2006 at 5:53 pm

  Susan’s posting pretty much lays bare the bickering parents’ fault.

  I’ve coached for over 30 years. I’ve coached college players from Castro Valley and surrounding communities. Based on that experience, the bickering parents’ conduct is no surprise. Could have been any one of 12 schools.

  We had a Castro Valley player not long ago. A very nice kid with some talent, but no will to learn. His dad attended every practice — and video taped his son’s every play. The kid didn’t play because he WOULD NOT LEARN. He had a personal skills coach and personal strength coaches. They’d all told him how great he was — to keep the $50 weekly fees coming — so the kid would not accept any coaching which challenged his self image. We needed the kid to play, but he was so bad we couldn’t risk keeping him on the field He failed. And the father blamed the coaches. Imagine that.

  Susan should read a popular new book entitled “The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure & Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected & Unhappy Kids.” It’s by Madeline Levine, a Marin Co. psychologist. After reading it, Susan should get a big mirror and just sit in front of it for a day. Perhaps the fog would wear off.

  It’s instructive to analyze some of Susan’s claims:

  The girls’ coach “BLAMED THEM FOR THE GAMES THE TEAM LOST.” Susan, sweetie, part of the lesson of sport is to accept accountability for failure. I know this is shocking but, when Your Little Darling and her teammates fail, it actually is their responsibility.

  By the way, this is a chronic disease among Tri Valley athletes: they can’t take responsibility. When the team loses, they immediately look for someone else to blame.

  SHE THREW A GIRL OUT OF PRACTICE BUT DIDN’T CALL HER MOMMY. Isn’t it the girl’s responsibility to call her mommy and say “I got thrown out of practice, will you come get me?”. There’s that ugly word “responsibility” again.

  THE COACH SAYS SHE THREW THE GIRLS OUT OF THE GYM FOR 10 MINUTES BUT IT WAS REALLY 45. So what? The coach has authority to take measures to get the players’ attention. Susan, are you going to call the chancellor when Your Little Darling fails college English? Are you going to call the CEO when Your Little Darling is disciplined at — or, more likely, fired from — her first job? God help the husband in her first marriage… or second. Or third.

  “JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A COACH DOESN’T MEAN YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME….I’VE BEEN AROUND BASKETBALL FOR MANY YEARS.” This is really the crux of the problem, Susan. You have a FAN’S knowledge of the game. You don’t understand the game any more than I would understand your business by visiting a few hours a week. This woman had coached at Kansas and Cal? Two of the nation’s best NCAA womens’ basketball programs? She’d played NCAA basketball? But YOU know more than SHE does? Have you any idea, Susan, how truly stupid and childish you sound when you say things like that? By the way, Judge Gunboat’s service as a little league coach does not give him a professional coach’s experience, either.

  I don’t want to get into the ranting and name calling but, in all candor, you people are crazy.

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 1, 2006 at 9:26 pm

  To all coaches and teachers,including Kimmie(?)

  Do you think it is ok to:
  1. Get angry to your players and not speak to them?
  2. Yes, throw them out of the gym when it’s dark, some not having rides, during winter break when school grounds are empty. Do you even care about the liability that puts the school in, let alone the safety factor for kids?
  3. Be disrespectful to parents who volunteer for your program?
  4. Show favoritism?
  5. Lie to your players?
  6. Talk to players about other players in a disrespectful manner?
  7. Get in the faces of college coaches who are friends with your players who came to see one of them play and gave them a hug at half time telling that college coach that no one is allowed to speak to your players from half time of the game before until the end of your game?
  8. Let some parents whistle and yell plays to their kids but berate other parents from giving encouragement to their kids?
  8. Get in the face of your team captain when she was encouraging and comforting a team mate that was having a bad game?
  9.Walk away and refuse to speak to a player that asked you why you denied doing some of the things noted above?
  10. Refuse to meet with concerned parents?
  11. Be so unapproachable that players don’t want to ever talk to you about things they are concerned about, even on how to improve?
  12. Not be a role model in “every sense” of the word?
  13. Not build a cohesive team spirit?
  14. Plot players against players?
  15. Intimidate players?
  16. Not have a team/parent meeting at the beginning of the season to explain “your rules”?
  17. Be well known for “taking things personally and holding grudges?”
  18. Allow players who have been in a serious car accident to play without a doctors release when they are still injured?
  19. To have the reputation as being a bully to kids in elementary school that are still remembering you as a bully 7 years later in their college years?
  20. Be a cry baby and a martyr?
  21. Never admit that you have done anything wrong or made a mistake to this team you have coached…EVER??????

  If you, as coaches or teachers, can truthfully say that any of this is ok with you, then you should not be around kids. Plain and simple.

• fred
  Nov 3, 2006 at 11:31 pm

  RE: KIMMIE, TOO

  The more these bickering parents speak, the more they demonstrate that this whole brouhaha boils down to two things:

  (1) My Little Darling should have played more. Everybody can tell how talented she is, even if she’s last on the team in every statistic. (Or more likely…) How could that awful woman have cut My Little Darling.

  (2) No one should ever be allowed to yell at My Little Darling. You don’t yell at perfection!

  Since “Kimmie Too” believes no professional who disagrees with any of her 21 indictments should be allowed to coach, let’s look at few of them.

  She claims no one should coach if they….

  1. GET ANGRY WITH KIDS & NOT SPEAK TO THEM. So, Lady, tell us that you’ve never been so angry with Your Little Darling that you didn’t speak to her for awhile.

  2. THROW PLAYERS OUT OF THE GYM. For some reason, you really think you have a scandal with this one. Well, Lady, it happens all the time. Commonly, it’s a way to say “The whole team is giving such an awful effort that it’s pointless to continue today”. FYI, the baseball coach at Chico State threw his players out of the locker room last season. Made them dress in their cars. They called it the turning point in their season. They won the national title.

  4. SHOWS FAVORITISM. Shocking as it may be, coaches have favorites. With good coaches, those favorites are usually the players who work harder, accept criticism, and draw those around them to improve. I take it Your Little Darling wasn’t one of the favorites? How COULD that be? By the way, the boss at work does the same thing.

  6. TALKS TO PLAYERS ABOUT OTHER PLAYERS’ FAILURES. Yes, every coach does this. It’s often in the form of “Why won’t Billy learn what we’re teaching?” or “If Billy would do extra practice, he wouldn’t fail us at the foul line.” The purpose is to send a message to that player — usually after direct confrontation hasn’t worked. It’s often a last warning before a player is benched or suspended.

  7. CONFRONT A COLLEGE COACH ABOUT TALKING WITH HER PLAYER AT HALFTIME. I’d guess it was more than a hug; and the college coach was probably recruiting the player or a friend. There is an absolute rule in the coaching fraternity: Never — as in ABSOLUTELY NEVER — bother a player before the game is over. I’ve had occasion to tell coaches (and pro scouts) exactly that, and in no uncertain terms. If an athlete I’m actively coaching is playing on another team, I will not talk with him until I’ve received the other coach’s permission.

  8. CONFRONT THE TEAM CAPTAIN FOR CONSOLING A PLAYER WHO’S FAILING. In all probability, the coach had told the player her failure was some form of unacceptable conduct. By consoling the player, the captain was probably undermining the message that the conduct was not acceptable. Part of being a captain is that you sometimes make this mistake — and get bit for it.

  13. NOT BUILD TEAM SPIRIT. If I’m not mistaken, all but one of the returning players are staying with the team — despite the furor you bickering parents have created. That indicates the coach has done a pretty good job of building team spirit.

  16. NOT HOLD A MEETING TO EXPLAIN “YOUR RULES” TO PARENTS. You just don’t get it, do you? The quote marks you put around the coach’s rules speak volumes. More importantly, the rules are for the team — not the parents. Did Your Little Darling’s math teacher hold a parents meeting to explain his/her rules? Are you going to complain to the trustees when Your Little Darling’s college English professor doesn’t clear his/her rules with you? (I’d say it’s a 50/50 chance.)

  So, tell us again why anybody who disagrees with you should never be allowed to coach? By the way, you folks in this Bickering Parents’ Association aren’t by any chance right-wing religeous conservatives, are you? Just a guess.

  One of the values of athletics is this: It teaches a cold hard fact of life which most teenagers must struggle to grasp: The world is no longer “Life According to Me.”

  I should imagine Your Little Darling will find this a hard and painful lesson, indeed. That’s because she won’t even begin to learn it until she’s left your nest.

• old friend
  Nov 4, 2006 at 9:51 pm

  Wow, I’ve never seen this website but I am familiar with the CV girl’s program. I’m so, so tired of this. How can so many people have so many strong opinions when they really know so little? In reality it scares me about the American public. How easily people can be influenced by the press, etc. This isn’t just about spoiled players, parents, money, a judge with power, parents with playing time concerns, etc. It’s about the majority of a program having concerns about their leader. If this was a business, the military, or a union and the “majority” of the people were concerned with the leaders ability to lead, no one would question it. But because this is HS sports it’s “assumed” the players are all spoiled and the parents all have playing time issues. Therefore the concerns mean nothing. Is it possible that the pendulum has swung so too far in favor of coaches? Guess what, I’m a coach not a parent.

• fred
  Nov 5, 2006 at 1:05 am

  Old Friend,

  Do you, by chance, coach at a youth level below high school?

  If the “majority” is so concerned, why do something like 11 of 12 returning players continue to support the program? Why aren’t players quitting?

  If the majority of players has problems with this coach, why didn’t they speak out before the school board — or in two investigations which apparently found the parents’ allegations unsubstantiated?

  It seems that the bulk of complaints are from families whose daughters were cut from the team. No one has ever offered facts or numbers to contradict that.

  The press didn’t make up the petty complaints voiced by “Susan” and “Kimmie too” in this blog.

  It’s not that the public has “assumed” these parents are petty and selfish. The bickering parents’ own words have made it obvious.

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 6, 2006 at 8:54 am

  Galloway, Nibarger, Kimmie,Fred whoever you are.

  “GET ANGRY WITH KIDS & NOT SPEAK TO THEM. So, Lady, tell us that you’ve never been so angry with Your Little Darling that you didn’t speak to her for awhile.”

  Yes, we get angry with our kids but, NO, we don’t stop speaking to them. What a juvenile approach. Are you even a parent? If you are, we feel for your kid(s).

  FYI, the players are returning because they feel some form of safety net with the “babysitters”. If these “punitive” actions would have not taken place, at least 6 of the returning players would not have come back. Nibarger is being watched. And when will any of you non-believers get it that this is NOT about playing time? Why would the captain of the team who played almost the entire game and other starters be “the girls” who are involved with this? Her parents are the ones who called the initial meeting. What’s the matter with all you folks who prefer to have blinders on? It just makes a better story to point at one parent and playing time as the issue.

  Oh, and by the way, the school administration admitted that the so called “investigation” was incomplete and therefore not credible.

  It is sad when an incompetent coach becomes a “celebrity” at the expense of kids.

  Grow a brain,Fred,Kimmee,whoever….

• old friend
  Nov 6, 2006 at 3:00 pm

  fred, I’m not sure why it matters if I coach youth level or college. If it makes you feel better to know, I’ve coached at the college level and high school level for a number of years.
  You asked,”why do something like 11 of 12 returning players continue to “support” the program? Why aren’t players quitting?” I’m not sure how the 11 of 12 players are “supporting” the program simply by going out for the team. Many of the players who spoke out against the coach are committed to see this through. If they simply wanted to quit, they would have done so a long time ago. When you really get down to it the bare bones is that the kids just want to play basketball.

• Kimmie
  Nov 7, 2006 at 6:26 pm

  Kimmie,too -

  No I’m not Galloway, Nibarger and anyone else but me - Kimmie.

  No I don’t think it’s OK for a Coach/Teacher to do the things you listed previously….but…I think you’ve forgotten something. Coach Nibarger was cleared of any wrong doing. I’m sorry Kimmie,too - but I don’t believe any of the 21 things you listed, and I don’t think the individuals that “investigated” the coach or the panel at the board hearing believe them either. If they did, Coach Nibarger would have been fired. Unless you are one of the players involved then I doubt you know if they happened either. Also - why were these rules only placed on the coach for 1 year? Maybe cuz the real problem(s) won’t be around next year (hint….seniors)

  Would love to know if you are a player or parent.

  Me - I’m just a friend of the coach. A good friend that has known her a long time. What you all describe doesn’t even come close to who she is. After months of people telling her she’s a bad person, it’s about time she’s got some people defending her - alot of people. People who know her, kids that had/have her as a coach, kids that had/have her as a teacher, parents of kids she has/had coached. Nothing you accuse her of really adds up.

  The season has started and try-outs are under way. All of the girls that signed the letter (I’d like to know how many of the girls that signed the letter were players last year - on the varsity team?) The babysitter is in place and the panel is picking the team for her. I’ll be there for the first home game in support of Coach Nibarger as will many others.

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 7, 2006 at 9:30 pm

  old friend…thanks for making sense. you seem to “get it”. Thanks for being on the side of the kids. It’s true…all they want to do is play basketball…it would be even better if they had a good coach.

• Kimmie
  Nov 8, 2006 at 9:52 am

  Old Friend & Kimmie,too -

  I’m not getting something. This coach was investigated 3 different times buy 3 different people (1 which was a good friend of Judge Goodman’s). Why do you think she was cleared of any wrong doing? Do you really think that these 2 individuals plus the school board would clear the coach if she was as you say! You people make her out to be this horrible person who only coaches to make these girls miserable. It all started with Judge Goodman’s daughter complaining about playing time and the point guard putting the blame on the coach for her having a terrible season.

• CVmerchant
  Nov 8, 2006 at 12:54 pm

  I just want to say something really quickly because the girls who were mistreated by Nibarger are customers of mine. Over the Summer, I repeatedly heard some of these girls say that they would never play basketball at CV High again as long as Nibarger was there. Some of them don’t want to play at all, because she ruined it for them, plain and simple. This quote by “Kimmie”: “It all started with Judge Goodman’s daughter complaining about playing time and the point guard putting the blame on the coach for her having a terrible season.” Is simply not true, I know this student, and she was happy to be part of the team, there was never a complaint about playing time. I realize that the fact that this child’s father is a judge is a great way for the coach to spin things in her favor. But it’s important for the truth to come out. Even though my daughter won’t be in high school for quite some time, I will see to it that Nibarger is NEVER her coach. It’s about the kids. And for 14 teenagers to go as far as SHOWING UP for a schoolboard meeting to explain how they were mistreated is huge. How can someone say it’s just teenagers “lying”? Something has been going on, and it’s the school board’s JOB to make sure these kids are protected. Why were the investigations incomplete?

• Kimmie
  Nov 8, 2006 at 4:32 pm

  Who said they were incomplete? These investigations lasted somewhere around 5 months. They talked to everyone involved. Players that signed and players that didn’t sign. They went as far as talking to other places that Coach Nibarger coached. Coach Nibarger has coached many places for many other kids/parents. There has never been a complaint against her and the investigations showed that. Everyone keeps saying 14 girls…I believe only 4 actually played for her. The others were girls that were cut and never played for coach Nibarger. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

  How can the stories of each side be so different. Someone is not telling the truth. You can ask two different kids on the same team - sharing the same locker room and their stories are so far apart. I guess we choose to believe different people. You know the judge’s daughter and I know the coach. But what neither of us have is proof. I wasn’t there and neither were you. All I know is that Coach Nibarger is nothing like these girls descripe. I have known her for 10 years and she doesn’t yell or get in your face. I’m not sure why she would start now. Each side has to live with the ruling. Let’s just wait and see who handles it better.

• old friend
  Nov 8, 2006 at 5:39 pm

  Kimme, you’re right about one thing, only the coaches and players truly know what went on day in and day out for the past two seasons. Based on what the school board is saying, that is why they decided to have an ombudsman to help get past the he said/she said and maybe get some insight as to what went on behind the scenes. Don’t get me wrong, I personally think the whole ombudsman/committee thing sets a very bad precedent for high school coaches. If the school board felt there was enough of a problem to appoint the Ombudsman and committee, then they should have simply shook hands, said thanks for your time and told Nibarger they were ready to move in another direction. I saw a recent article on this situation where a successful local coach, Frank Allocco, was quoted as saying something along the lines of…. It is clear that the players and parents lost trust in the coach a long time ago and the situation should have been handled then. I couldn’t agree more. From what I understand that is all the parents wanted in the first place, a meeting. It sounds like you know Nibarger personally and feel she is nothing like the girls describe. Do you coach with her? Do you see her day in and day out in action? A coach has to be competitive, have a strong desire to win, and be determined, but it is possible to take all these traits to an extreme. I’ve seen coaches who are nice, quiet, personable people off court but on court is something else. We’ll never really know what went on behind the scenes the past two seasons and my guess is the ombudsman isn’t going to get a true sense of Nibarger this season either. Picture an employee who is confronted for spending too much personal time on the computer at work. If he/she were told they would be “watched” every minute at work do you think they’d still use the computer for personal time. I think not. The situation is unfortunate and it’s going to have to run its course. If Nibarger has significant problems with communication, is vindictive, etc. Even if it does not show through this year, it will show through eventually. It’s just unfortunate for the players to have to go through all of this. All they want is to have (what should be) a wonderful experience playing HS basketball.

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 8, 2006 at 8:48 pm

  Thank you, old friend, for another unbiased and level headed opinion.

  Just to correct Kimmie once more, there were 2 investigations. The first one was with most of the players, not all of them. The second one was done at the district level. That one was incomplete and that was even admitted by the person in charge of that investigation.
  Also, all 14 players had played for Ms. Nibarger during her 2 seasons at CVHS. 3 of those players were cut but had played for her during fall league but the other 11 were on her varsity team so you are getting some bad info somewhere. Oh, and I might add that yes, one of the team captains from the previous season did speak on her behalf. She was the ONLY player that came forward at the meeting. The other captain from that same year spoke out against the coach at the August meeting…
  One more thing, I’ll bet if you asked Nibarger herself, she cannot look you in the eye and tell you that the judge’s daughter complained about playing time. If she does, she is a liar or you are.
  Can you actually defend her behavior when she refused to meet with concerned parents? That is what brought her to where she is today. Any professional would have met with the parents. Maybe she would not have agreed with everything she heard but all she would have had to say was “I hear what you’re saying and although I do not agree with everything, I will do my best to make next season a better one” and ALL of this would have gone away. If you can’t agree with that…well you have blinder’s on. I feel sorry for you.

• N
  Nov 9, 2006 at 9:47 am

  I am a previous student of Coach Nibarger and I think this is a bunch of crap. We loved her.

• Kimmie
  Nov 9, 2006 at 2:53 pm

  Kimmie, too & Old Friend:

  I’ve said what I need to. You two obviously disagree with me and keep coming up with reasons the coach should have been fired. But sorry, she wasn’t. Kimmie, too - you said you were correcting me again. I said there were 2 investigations and a board hearing. With as many girls and parents that have spoken against her, there are twice as many in support of coach Nibarger. I could respond to everything written but I don’t want to. I know the coach and yes I see/talk to her at least 4 times a week. Believe what and who you want - it’s your right and is mine. It’s also your right to speak what you feel, but I’m done listening.

• hear me
  Nov 9, 2006 at 3:22 pm

  Kimmie: If there were twice as many in support of her, where were they? At the board meeting, hummmm NOT. And why oh yeah because we were intimidating them all. Yeah Right. I want to say I feel really sorry for you that you have to see that *&^%$* person 4 times a week but that is nothing that I would bragg about. The only people I see in support for her is the 2 or 3 coaches and one player that didnt even play last year. Its easy to rally around someone if you really dont know them.. example everyone on the radio, newspapers and well all the media in general. The ones who really know her are the 14 girls who stood up for themselves. Those are the voices that are not being heard, just ignored.

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 9, 2006 at 5:40 pm

  Kimmie,

  You are wrong and you’re done listening because you can’t take the truth. Good riddance.

• Kimmie
  Nov 10, 2006 at 10:15 am

  I know the truth and just choose not to listen to you two bash a person you don’t even know.

  Oh by the way….I guess the problem is solved….4 out of the 5 girls on the team last year didn’t even make the team. The 6 person panel cut them…not coach Nibarger….the panel that was put in place to protect the girls. I guess they did their job.

• old friend
  Nov 10, 2006 at 11:09 am

  I’m not sure if you were referring to me when you said, “you two bash a person you don’t even know.” First, look back on my posts and I don’t think you’ll find any point at which I “bashed” Nibarger. Second, what makes you think I don’t know Nibarger.
  With regards to oh by the way…. Not sure who should be proud of the fact that 4 out of the 5 returners were cut. Not sure how well that reflects on Nibarger considering at least two of those girls have been on varsity since their sophomore year. hmmmm?? If they were good enough to be on varsity in their sophomore year why are they now not even good enough to make the team as seniors? I sure hope there are some phenomenal underclassmen this year. Otherwise the cuts sure seem like revenge.

• hear me
  Nov 10, 2006 at 11:49 am

  Oh we know her Kimmie. We know her way to well thats the whole problem. I never trusted that the panel would be an honest one because this school district so corupt!!!! The six people on the panel except for one are on Nibarger’s payroll as far as I am concerned. The panel cut one or more of the returning players from last year who’s parents signed the letter. It looks to me like straight up RETALIATION. Something the school district said they would not allow to happen. If the superintendent had any balls he would of fired her ass a long time ago. Instead he lets her continue to hurt the girls that only wanted to be heard in the first place. Lets not forget that all the girls wanted was a meeting with their coach at the end of the season. The coach was a chicken shit and scared to face them because she knew what they were going to say. And that’s is the REAL REASON she cut them. She still cannot look them in the face because she knows what an Fnnnn liar she is. Kimmie that’s the REAL REASON those girls were cut. I wouldnt be so happy for her just yet “Kimmie” what comes around goes around. I would also find a new friend ( if that is what you consider yourself) because Nibarger will turn on you to eventually. She is only out for herself and doesnt care who she hurts in the process. Even if they are kids.

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 10, 2006 at 4:26 pm

  Hey Kimmie, I thought you were “done listening”. Sounds like you are happy about the girls being cut. You are just like Nibarger.

• fred
  Nov 13, 2006 at 1:21 am

  Well well well.

  You bickering parents have really spewed some venom since last I was on this site, haven’t you?

  Nice mouth you have on you, “Hear Me”. Do you treat your children to the same profanity you graced us with here? Wonderful parental example.

  Now it appears the Bickering Parents didn’t get the results they wanted from that absurd Team Selection Panel. So, the Panel is evil, too?

  Yes sir, ANYONE can see how you Bickering Parents are the soul of reason! Who in the world could miss that?

  “Old Friend”. I must say I find it hard to believe you coached at the college level. What sport? I’m dying to know. No college coach I’ve ever heard of would meet with a bunch of parents who wanted to complain about how he’s running his program.

  And, “Old Friend”, I notice how you refer to the coach as “Nibarger”. No college — or high school — professional would fail to speak of a fellow professional as “Coach Nibarger”.

  The root of this problem is not that the coach wouldn’t meet with the parents. It’s that the parents felt they had a right to meet with the coach. You don’t have that right. You don’t have the right to tell a coach how she should run her program. Period.

  On a business flight home from Minnesota, I sat next to a Denver coach who’d heard of your antics. Needless to say, he thought your position absurd. Yesterday in Berkeley, when the subject of teaching came up, two retired teachers immediately brought up Castro Valley and the infamy you’ve brought to it.

  You’re making a reputation for yourselves — literally — all over the country. One your children will be years living down.

• CVMerchant
  Nov 13, 2006 at 11:50 am

  What an odd post.
  “The root of this problem is not that the coach wouldn’t meet with the parents. It’s that the parents felt they had a right to meet with the coach. You don’t have that right.”
  I can’t imagine a teacher/coach who works with minors would fathom that parents didn’t have the right to talk to them. Is there a law somewhere that says this?

  Also, the “infamy” that has been brought to Castro Valley was born o ut of concern for the girls themselves. The girls themselves stuck together and stood up for what they knew was right. If this had happened to my daughter, I would let her know how incredibly proud I was of her. The media whirlwind will pass, but knowing they stood up for what is right will stay with these girls forever.

• fred
  Nov 13, 2006 at 2:03 pm

  It’s certainly common for an individual parent to speak with a coach or teacher about problems that individual parent’s child is having.

  It is not common — or acceptable — for a group of parents to demand a meeting with the coach, in order to influence the way he/she runs the team. No more than it’s appropriate for a group of parents to try to change the way a math teacher handles instruction on algorhythms.

  You just don’t get it, do you? Parents don’t get to help run the athletic programs. Period.

  As for the girls “standing up for themselves”… No one heard those claims until the Bickering Parents’ conduct brought national ridicule on themselves. Then, all of a sudden, it was really the players’ idea.

  If there’s anything those girls are proud of, it certainly isn’t the embarrassment their over-involved parents have brought on them.

• Dave
  Nov 13, 2006 at 2:13 pm

  To: Hear me

  I don’t know any of the major players in this but I have read alot about it in the papers and on this web page, but your comments struck me as odd. Why would you say the board is corrupt? They found the coach did nothing wrong yet set restrictions on her. Sounds like they were corrput in favor of you. Also - I’m sure the coach doesn’t make enough money to have anyone in her “pocket” as you say, but on the other hand I’m sure the Judge has enough money to have some in his pocket. Actually I just read somewhere that he gave $4,000 to the new CV Arts center (which is affiliated with the High School). Maybe that’s why this all got to the board in the first place. And lastley.. if I read the paper correctly, the panel was made up of coach Nibarger, her two assistant coaches (which were hired by the AP of the school) and 3 others that had to be approved by the players side.

  I also noticed that no one other than Mr. Sweet (the parent’s lawyer) ever had comments, and they weren’t much. The papers would say that Judge Goodman was called but he would refered the calls to his lawyer. The Judge never had any comments - that I found strange. He didn’t refer the phone calls to other parents, or to the children that had the complaints, he refered them to a lawyer. If your side wanted to speek to the press I’m sure anyone of you could have called any paper and they would have listened.

  What’s done is done. The coach is dealing with the restrictions put on her. It’s time to stop whinning and deal with it as well. I think the maturity and class of the players’ side (being it parents or players) speaks for itself just with the words you have written on this site.

• hear me
  Nov 13, 2006 at 3:04 pm

  Thats right Dave you dont know any of the major players so why are you even commenting. Learn to read between the lines Dave they put the restrictions on her because maybe just maybe she did do something wrong!! And the reason you have not heard from anyone on the parents side is we made an agreement not to go to the press because it was a personnel issue and private. We have upheld that agreement Dave. Not like Castro Valley school district who broke the agreement by letting there coach run off at the mouth to every paper that would listen to her sad story of being mistreated!! Give me a break. I am with CV Merchant I would totally be proud of my daughter and I would also stand of for her in a minute if she asked me to.

• Dave
  Nov 13, 2006 at 4:32 pm

  I rest my case!

• hear me
  Nov 13, 2006 at 8:28 pm

  WHATEVER DAVE :)

• fred
  Nov 14, 2006 at 1:04 pm

  I haven’t heard an answer from the Bickering Parents faction to the question of parental interference.

  So just a simple “yes” or “no” question:

  DO PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO TELL A COACH HOW HE/SHE COULD RUN THE TEAM? Yes or no.

  How about it, Susan, Old Friend, CV Merchant, Hear Me, Kimmie Too?

  Let’s hear a direct answer from each of you to this simple question.

• Dave
  Nov 14, 2006 at 2:24 pm

  I don’t hear anything!

• hear me
  Nov 14, 2006 at 3:25 pm

  You should check out norcal preps under girls basketball of course and check out the postings of JS32, BBBBigbird ets for the real story on Castro Valley.

  And just FYI the parents did not want to tell the coach how to run the team. thats what you guys want it to be about. I think you will understand more clearly the situation if you check out the above postings especially JS32. then come back and tell me what you think of the situation. This person(JS32) is someone on the inside telling you the facts.

• Mark
  Nov 14, 2006 at 4:17 pm

  WOW truly a catch 22 in all respects and what I see as an effort to try and not set precedence for either side. I’ve no ties to this but will weigh in on this topic, like it or not.
  I coach youth sports, nothing at the HS nor College level and do it because I enjoy spending time with the kids and it is my chosen outlet for now.

  Fred, you’ve made some mighty good points and even at the youth level we reefer to each other as coaches. It didn’t click with me until you mentioned it.

  As a parent I wouldn’t imagine talking to any coach in a group setting about their style of coaching or coaching philosophy. If I had something to say it would be in a 1:1 setting.

  I see a lot of time, effort and energy being applied to this unfortunate and utterly crazy situation, in my opinion, which made me wonder. Wonder about the truly wonderful things that could be accomplished if the same amount of time, effort and energy was applied to Math and Science programs within out education system. I also wonder if this has had a drain on the educational side of the CV HS. That would be an interesting study. A study to see what impacts these types of events have on our education systems and if there is an impact to the quality of education for the students at this public school. My guess is that it has and those students are the true victims and the casualties in the battle.

  This is a perfect example of the inability to problem solve, take accountability and communicate. But the truly ironic thing about it is that those are some of the main life lessons you get out of competitive sports.

  Best of luck to all close to this….

• Dave
  Nov 14, 2006 at 5:23 pm

  Here me;

  I read what you suggested. Now what? It’s just more of what is written on this site. It’s just people against the coach speaking their minds. Do we really know what the truth is. You say they are close to the truth. They need to identify themselves in order for me to take anything they say to heart.

• hear me
  Nov 14, 2006 at 10:05 pm

  Didnt you notice that one of the writers was Erin Davenport the CVHS varsity coach for 10 years before nancy took over? that isnt truth enough for you?? Did you read all the postings that JS32 wrote?? That didnt sound like the truth to you??
  What I read was not more people against the coach, what I read was factual. Especially what Erin Davenport said. She says right in her posting that it is her. I dont think you read what I am refering to because I really dont think you say it was the same people against the coach.
  I took the time to go to norcal preps to direct you to what I am speaking of. Please go back and read Re: Castro Valley (Ehoops)this is Erin Davenport and then read “Castro Valley Fact based Perspective” and then tell me what you think. If after reading those and you still think its against the coach and not fact, well I just dont know what to tell you. I am just pointing you to someone(jS32) who is telling you EXACTLY what happened on the parents side and thats what you guys seem to want to know. When pointed to someone telling you what happened you still want to believe everyone is against the coach. Let me just say this started was before these players complained about their coach. These girls were strong enough and brave enough to stand up for what they know is right.. And I am proud of every single one of them. They were trying to stop the madness going on in that program, let me restate still going on. The school board like I said before wont fire Ms. Nibarger. There I was not profane.

• fred
  Nov 15, 2006 at 12:48 am

  No, you weren’t. And that’s very commendable, “Hear Me”. You handled your emotions just like the real adults do.

  But, you didn’t answer the question.

  Instead, you claimed “the parents did not want to tell the coach how to run the team”.

  Let’s see now: For months, you Bickering Parents have complained that “none of this would have happened” if the coach had agreed to meet with your group after the season. Now, “Hear Me”, you claim you people didn’t want the meeting to talk about how she ran the team.

  So, what were you demanding to meet about? To discuss the weather, I assume. Maybe you wanted to exchange cake recipes?

  Oh, Coach Nibarger, if you’d only known. These good people just wanted to sit down and give you their opinions on the NBA’s new synthetic basketballs!

  So, “Hear Me”, sweetie, c’mon and be honest. All these nice readers are just waiting to hear you answer the simple question:

  DO PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO TELL A COACH HOW HE/SHE SHOULD RUN THE TEAM? “Yes” or “No”.

  How about you, “Susan”, or you, “Kimmie Too”, or you, “CV Merchant”? And “Old Friend”, you say you coached college ball so surely you can give us a simple yes or no.

  You can do this, people. We all believe in you, we know you can. Now, who’s the bravest? Who’ll be the first to step up and say “Yes” or “No”.

• old friend
  Nov 15, 2006 at 8:08 am

  Fred,
  As easy as it may sound that question is not a simple yes or no question.
  DO PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO TELL A COACH HOW HE/SHE SHOULD RUN THE TEAM? “YES OR NO”.
  No, they do not have a right to “tell” a coach how to run the team.
  Yes, they have a right to “communicate” with the coach.

• Dave
  Nov 15, 2006 at 9:47 am

  Hear me -

  I read everything you told me to. Just because it was written doesn’t mean it’s the truth. If the coach herself wrote something in this blog does it also mean it’s the truth. I have a question. If some of the players say that she was terrible how can the other girls on the team have such a different opinion. Something is not right when you have a team were 1/2 say she’s bad and the other 1/2 says none of what she is accused of is true?

  So what you’re saying is that I should believe YOU or the others that have spoken on this site against the coach because you speak the truth? Are you one of the players? Cuz if you are just a parent - you weren’t there, you just heard it from your kid. That doesn’t qualify as the truth!

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 10:23 am

  Ok Dave If you cant tell what Erin Davenport wrote was the truth I dont know what to say to you anymore. What JS32 wrote is what happened in the castro valley situation. I am one of the parents involed and I am in no way a ranting parent. You people on this blog just want to keep feeding the frenzy. I admit earlier in my postings I do appear a little hostile but I have gotten over the anger this was causing me. Now I am just trying to help you understand what went on. half the team did not testify against the coach for fear of retailation and a few of them were also freshman and still have 3 years left at this school. I pointed you to norcal preps so you could read the facts of the case. Its not my fault you dont want to believe what has been written. JS32 explained it way better than I could. I am truly sorry that you dont understand.:(

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 10:41 am

  Fred
  As I said before, NO, I dont believe that the parents have the right to tell the coach how to run the team. I agree with Old Friend in that YES, they do have the right to communicate with the coach and with any school district employee. I will direct you also to the Norcal preps website and you can read for yourself what the situation is about. Read my above posting to Dave and read were I asked him to read. JS32 explains the whole situation in detail better than I could ever do. Also Ehoops(Erin Davenport)also sheds some light on Ms. Nibargers personality. And Fred(Coach Nibarger or Collen Galloway or whoever you are) I am done with my anger about this situation and I am nicely trying direct you to were you can read the factual truth, so stop being a smart ass. If you dont want to believe and keep feeding the fenzy like dave, more power to you…

• fred
  Nov 15, 2006 at 11:14 am

  OK, we’ve heard from “Old Friend” and “Hear Me”.

  Now, “Susan” and “CV Merchant” and “Kimmie Too”, you can be brave, too! Just step up and answer the question:

  DO PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO TELL A COACH HOW HE/SHE SHOULD RUN THE TEAM? “YES OR NO”.

  You can do this. Tell all the nice people the simple truth. And, contrary to “Old Friend” and “Hear Me”, it is a simple question which can honestly be answered “Yes” or “No”.

• Mark
  Nov 15, 2006 at 11:50 am

  Hear Me,

  As a parent why didn’t you remove your child form the situation if you believed it to be an unhealthy situation, environment and coach?. Now, don’t get me wrong I’m all for a good battle once in a while, keeps me young, but not at the expense of my children.

  I’m sure there are a lot of parents, like myself, following this story. What I am trying to extract from this event is how best to handle situations like this if faced with it. Knowing what you know now and based on your experiences would you have done anything different?

  I will share with you that the references to the meeting requested by the parents with the coach reminded me of a scene out of an old western movie where a lynch mob, lead by the town sheriff and judge, was in hot pursuit of their quarry down Main Street and primed for a hanging. The quarry, in this case the Coach, did what most would have. She found a place to hole up and decided to return fire instead of getting her neck stretched or run out of town. Again.. just a perception.

  I also think the parents lost any hope of influencing positive change when the judge and a lawyer got involved. They brought and swung a big hammer which hit the anvil and now the vibrations resonating up the handle are starting to sting the hand that swung it, i.e the other parents.

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 12:15 pm

  Fred

  Are you saying I didnt answer your question honestly??

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 12:26 pm

  Mark

  By removing my daughter from the situation would mean she would be letting her team down. My daughter is not like that and is pretty level headed. This situation is nothing like a lynch mob. The judge just happens to be one of the parents with a daughter in the program. That’s it. Because he is a public figure its easy to Like you say lynch him. Have you read the postings on norcal preps like I have asked everyone else to do. If not please do so and then let me know what you think about the castro valley issue. I will say to you that no parent in the group is the ranting parents everyone is making them out to be.
  They just wanted a dicussion with the coach basically to talk about what we could all do to make the program better the next year. Thats it.

• Susan
  Nov 15, 2006 at 12:38 pm

  I have not been on here in awhile. All I can say is very interesting reading.

  I will answer your question Fred.

  NO, you dont have the right to tell a coach how to run her program.
  BUT, I do agree that they should be able to communicate with the coach either 1:1 or in a group.
  If the coach is confident in the program she is running there should be no problem meeting with the parents who support and volunteer in for the program. I am not a ranting parent and I think there are alot if issues that will come to light in the near future. But I am and my daughter is over all the Castro Valley drama and we are moving on…

• Karen
  Nov 15, 2006 at 12:58 pm

  I think the parents should be allowed to go to the coach 1:1, but not in a group setting. If you have a problem with someone, you always go 1:1. Of course it looks like ranting parents when its done in a group.

• Susan
  Nov 15, 2006 at 1:31 pm

  Like I said if your confident in your program it should not be a problem. :) Thats only my opinion and we all have our own.

• Mark
  Nov 15, 2006 at 1:45 pm

  Hear me,

  Yes Sir I sure did and more… It was all one long paragraph and my vision was blurred for 2 hours after I was done but worth it.

  Yes, the judge was/is caught in a quandary with being a parent and what comes with his chosen profession. IMHO he needed to keep a degree of separation from personal and professional and not let it come into play and try and influence the outcome. I would imagine that would be very difficult to do and don’t know if he tried to influence the outcome but retaining counsel put it over the top for me.

  Blah. What I think about his position isn’t material and does not matter. It’s unique with constraints not a lot of folks will have in managing a situation like this.

  What does matter to me is the experiences and learning’s from normal parents involved in this unfortunate situation. Based on how large this has gotten it could easily be a life changing event for a family and not all of it positive changes. By sharing the things you might have done differently, things you would do the same and key takeaways knowing the impact to your family you are providing insight to fellow parents that normally would not be available.

  See, I view this blog as a form of learning, not a forum to push an agenda or lobby for either side, I suck at both of those anyway. However, I do learn pretty good so please share if you are willing.
  -Mark

• Dave
  Nov 15, 2006 at 2:23 pm

  Hear me -

  It’s not that I don’t want to believe you - I’m not sure that I should. I shouldn’t believe you as much as you’re telling me not to believe the other side. I read what Erin said and I’m not convienced that was the truth either. I’m sure she wants everyone to view her as the great coach that left. From what I understand she wasn’t to well liked either, but again maybe the person I heard that from was telling the truth either. I understand that you are a parent. Besides asking for a meeting with the coach, were you there in the locker room and at every practice to witness all these horrible things that were done? And who said the other girls didn’t sign the letter because they were scared of retaliation? You? I hear that a house of a player was egged just before the board hearing and she backed out in testifying for the coach. Who do you think did that? I also read that the girls who testified had matching binders with notes. Why in the world would they need binders to speak the truth? It all sounded planned out to me. I heard they also highfived each other when they were done testifying. (I read all of this in the paper - are you telling me that the paper lied about these things).

  With everything I have read - I’m sure the coach is not perfect. I’m sure she lost it some times. Especially if the players weren’t playing their best and if they had attitude. So my opinion is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

• sonoma
  Nov 15, 2006 at 5:54 pm

  This is the one of the most absurd things I have ever read. I have coached younger and high school aged kids for over 15 years. There is a difference in how you treat them in team sports. When they are young and learning a sport it should be a game and fun. By the time you get to High School the competiton increases and the kids have to step it up a notch. It can still be fun, but it is also work and is not always the fun it was when you were 8. But life isn’t always easy. Sometimes you just got to suck it up. As a parent of a High School student, he has made complaints over the years. My advise to him has always been. Make it work. You’ve got many years ahead of you and it is up to you to figure it out. I can’t rescue you from everything.
  That would be my advise to the girls.

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 6:15 pm

  Dave

  This is the last I am going to say. I was at the board meeting for the 12 hours it went from 9:00am to 9:00pm. My daughter testified and I can honestly tell you on my fathers grave(who I loved very much) the girls had no binders and no notes. They did not high five each other. It was very emotional for them to testify. And at times came out of the room in tears. they did console each other. I myself did not hear of anyone egging someones house. I myself dont believe that however I am not saying it did not happen. It certainly could have. If it did happen I do not condone that kind of behavior. I also agree with you that I too also heard that the other coach was not well liked. I dont know her and my daughter was not a part of her program. I have heard of her and most of things I heard match what she said in her posting. Dave I am not asking you to believe me all I wanted you to do was read the postings on norcal preps so that you could see our side. The paper was not telling the story accuratly because the paper was not at the hearing so where do you think they got the info. The hearing was a closed hearing because it was a personnel issue. The paper did not get the info from the parents side because we promised the school board we would not go to the media, and we still have not. I will tell again honestly I suggested going to the media several times thoughout this whole ordeal, but certain parents did not want to piss off the school board. Maybe if we had stopped worring about being so nice in the matter our side of the story would have come out the way it should have but we cant go back now, only forward. I dont know what else I can tell you Dave?? If you have anymore questions I will be happy to try and answer them for you as honestly as I can.

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 6:40 pm

  Mark

  Yes I probably would have still signed the letter. Everything I do concerning my daughter’s basketball is discussed. I talk with my daughter and I ask her what she wants. She wanted the letter signed. I asked her that question more than once before we signed the letter. She felt very strongly about what was happening at CVHS and to her team mates.
  The things I would have done differently is I would have not agreed to the decision that the school board offered. The onbudsman, panel,etc. I would have asked for a decision one way or the other, fire her. But again no one wanted to piss anyone off. Personally If I came that far and was waiting for the decision I wouldnt care who I pissed off. Its gone to far to be nice now.
  I also would have brought the media in. They would have been waiting outside the school district office awaiting the decision of the board after the hearing. If they had been there then we would had not been made to wait almost 6 weeks for a decision. A decision that you see made a lot problems. And the girls still are not playing ball. Its very unfortunate. Key takeaways?? I am not sure what you mean by that. enlighten me.

  I will say that I hope this never happens again I do not wish this on anyone. But I do feel that it will happen again at CVHS as long as this coach continues. IT will be a different set of kids and parents next time. I am interested to see what we say then…..

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 6:45 pm

  Thank you for your advise Sonoma. Its to bad you dont feel that you should help your son when he askes you for it. In high school you are considered an adult yet. Have you read all the postings before making your comments. The ones on Norcal preps etc. If not maybe you should and then get back to us. Everyone else has read them and we are trying to have a reasonable discussion here.

• fred
  Nov 15, 2006 at 7:04 pm

  I’m still waiting for “Kimmie Too” and “CV Merchant” to answer the simple question:

  DO PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO TELL A COACH HOW HE/SHE SHOULD RUN THE TEAM? “YES OR NO”.

  And no, “Old Friend” it isn’t more complicated than that. Where you stand on this question is defined by a simple “Yes” or “No” answer.

  “Kimmie Too” and “CV Merchant” had a lot to say before. Why have they disappeared when asked to answer this simple question?

  “Hear Me”, I’ll be happy to answer your last question to me when I get everyone’s answers to this question.

  Thanks

• cvmerchant
  Nov 15, 2006 at 7:29 pm

  LOL, sorry, I work a lot.

  Is the coach in question mistreating or abusing the kids?

  I would NEVER try to tell a coach how to COACH a team. But if I thought the coach was doing something unethical, I would go to them ONE ON ONE first and try to get answers. If that didn’t work, I’d have to go to whatever the next level would be. After all, even though this issue is about high school, and there are possible scholarships on the line, the kids are STILL minors, and the parent’s responsibility.

  My child is very young, but even now, in the activities I have her in, she is learning valuable people skills dealing with the moods of the different coaches (and parents) that she comes in to contact with. Still, this is a great coach, and I would NEVER jump in and say something about the way she coaches my kid, you have to give coaches their power and leeway to coach the kids.

  In the case of Coach Nibarger, she put the girls in danger in at least one occasion that I know of, and it’s just not okay.

• hear me
  Nov 15, 2006 at 8:22 pm

  CV Merchant and I are on the same page..:)

• Mark
  Nov 16, 2006 at 8:51 am

  Hear Me;

  Those are the items I was looking for as a parent and all key takeaways from your 1st hand experiences. I’m very interested in any additional items from other involved parents who may be monitoring this. Based on where events are today and what you know now would you have done anything different?

  Coaches;
  I also see a strong presence of the coaching community and am interested in their thoughts on a few items;
  1. In your opinion, what would have been the correct way to manage this and at what point should it have been considered resolved?
  2. How do you approach a coach that is perceived unapproachable?
  3. What steps do you recommend if efforts fail to gain a 1:1 audience with the coach? Is there a way to escalate this without it seeming like an escalation?
  4. What would you consider “not open for discussion” in parental conversations regarding your programs?
  5. How do you prefer to hear constructive feedback and what do you consider open to feedback?
  6. At what point do you believe parental involvement to be negative, unwelcome and unhealthy in HS Sports?
  7. If there are questions that the majority have about the program or a specific event how should these be raised without it being perceived as a mutiny, revolt or personal attack?

  Thanks…

• Hear Me
  Nov 16, 2006 at 9:43 am

  Fred

  Please answer my question. I answered yours.:)

• fred
  Nov 16, 2006 at 9:56 am

  Thanks, “Hear Me”. Waiting for “Kimmie Too”

• Hear Me
  Nov 16, 2006 at 12:17 pm

  Fred:

  Just FYI you might wait awaile. I know kimmie too and I dont think she will be back. Your call.

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 16, 2006 at 9:40 pm

  OK Fred, I have been following norcalprep.com, I have to admit. I got burned out on this blog. But for some strange reason I decided to check this today.
  The answer to your question is”No, I do not believe that a parent has ANY right to tell a coach what to do”. That is what has been so frustrating to all of us with this media blitz. We NEVER tried to tell the coach what to do. We simply wanted a meeting with her to address our concerns about the way our daughters were being treated by her (and her assistant). There were some of us that tried the one on one approach (which is always the better approach) but that did not work. If a parent spoke up to her about their concerns…their kid payed for it. The coach would stop speaking to them and bench them. That is not a way for any adult, let along coach to act to kids. This meeting was called out of sheer frustration. If the coach would have had the meeting and simply said “you know, I may not agree with everything I’m hearing but I will do my best to make next season a better one”…THAT’S ALL!!!! The whole thing would have disappeared and everyone would have gone away. But to say “I didn’t do ONE thing wrong…ALL of you are wrong and your daughters are wrong”…that is just plain unprofessional. As far as the school district and their decision…they were spineless. They should have just either told the 32 people (14 kids) that spoke to pound salt or fired the coach. This namby pamby approach did not work. In fact, it made things worse.
  All I can say is YOU HAD TO BE THERE. We (the parents and daughters) are now picking up the pieces and hoping to move ahead.

  But I will end this by saying that a parent does not have the right to tell the coach what to do but they do have a right and an obligation to defend their child if they are constantly dumped on. Bye Bye….

• CV Observer
  Nov 16, 2006 at 11:51 pm

  To Fred: Does a coach have the right to stand up and accept responsibility when his or her program has problems? And when does that happen? Does he admit it to the players? Does he admit it to the parents? Or does he say “PARENTS DON’T HAVE A RIGHT TO TELL A COACH HOW HE/SHE SHOULD RUN THE TEAM”? You appear to have written the book on coaching.

• fred
  Nov 17, 2006 at 1:44 am

  Mark,

  I want to answer your questions before getting to “Hear Me”, who deserves a thoughtful reply. (Tomorrow, I promise.)

  This has been a beneficial exercise for me. In reading this blog and the the NorCal preps blog, I’ve developed a better understanding of the parent bloggers. They handled this absolutely the wrong way, but many of the forces which brought them to this place aren’t their doing — they aren’t even aware of some. The parents were wrong, but this appears to be a coach who also has some growing to do.

  Now, let me answer your questions in order….

  1. The parents were right to wait until the season ended (which undoubtedly took a heap of patience). However, their only acceptable recourse was to have gone one-on-one with the coach. One or two apparently tried. EVERY one of them should have followed this course. Even if it’s irritating as hell, a coach is far more likely to hear what individuals say than to respond to a group. The group effort just reeks of ganging up on the coach. It deprived those who wanted peaceful resolution of any chance for success.

  2. You approach a coach who’s considered unapproachable the same way you approach a boss or a spouse who isn’t receptive. You find common ground. The first question might be “Do you think we’re being unreasonable?” From there, a discourse MIGHT have developed.

  3. There’s a big difference between a coach refusing to meet a group, and refusing to meet with individual parents. If the coach will not meet with INDIVIDUAL parents, it’s perfectly legitimate to escalate. Think how much stronger the parents’ case would have been if they’d been able to tell the principal or AD, “Each of us has asked the coach for individual time and she’s refused”. The meetings with the principal should have been one-on-one as well. Yes, it takes a lot of time. Given the mess they find themselves in now, it would have been time well spent.

  4. At the college or jr. college level, there’s very little I would discuss with a parent. It’s a little different at the high school level — but parent problems have become so rampant that the difference is no longer great. Certainly, strategy and tactics are inappropriate subjects. For reasons I’ll explain to “Hear Me”, playing time would not be something I’d spend a lot of time discussing. On disciplinary or personal-relationship issues, the parent’s best choice is to ask about a specific situation (a one-time event). If the first question goes well, that opens the door for a second. The parent will get nowhere venting frustration. The parent should ALWAYS try to find out what frustrated the coach in the difficulty. Usually, the coach’s response will contain information the parent was unaware of — often surprising insights. In any event, it will build some rapport.
  The most imporant fact for a parent to remember — though, like these parents, most of them don’t accept it — is that the coach does not OWE you any explanation whatever. The coach doesn’t work for you. The core of this problem is that parents (not just these parents)are venturing onto ground where they have NO legitimate authority over issues which are important to their children and themselves. This is a very difficult adjustment, It’s a hard part of growing up — for the parent as well as the child. And most educators will tell you that this generation of parents is not handling it well.

  5. The last half of this question seems to be a restatement of Question 5. It would appear Coach Nibarger didn’t trust these parents. Very few coaches today do trust parents. We don’t want anything to do with them because they have no objectivity and are absolutely unwilling to to put the team’s needs ahead of their own goals for their children. Bottom line: parents are seen as untrustworthy. You could not pay me enough to coach high school kids. There’s also a pathetic byproduct: manipulative coaches have a field day with today’s parents. They’re the biggest suckers alive. Tell them how great their kids are and they’ll not only purr and rub against your leg, they’ll throw money at you!
  I’ve gone into this rant so you can understand my rather blunt Irish response to your question… Given this experience, how much parental feedback do you think ANY coach considers legitimate?

  6. From a coach’s perspective, The moment they open their mouths. Please see #5, above, and closing comments, below.

  7. A large part of this problem is that parents — not just these parents — have spent the last 15+ years destroying their own credibility.
  That being said, there’s still a system and parents still have legitimate rights. If ALL these parents had gone INDIVIDUALLY to the coach, and INDIVIDUALLY to the athletic director or principal, civil disourse would probably have broken out. This may surprise you but, if they’d been shut out at the school level, I’d have gone directly to school board members. Again, individually. Private 1-on-1 meetings with several board members would have caused the problem to have been kicked down to the district by their bosses on the board. That probably would have yielded a much better response than the soap opera actually ensued. I would never have taken it to the board meeting. If going to the individual board members hadn’t worked, I would have walked. Voting with their feet would have sent a much more effective public message. And, looking back, their children would have been better off.

  A CLOSING THOUGHT — I, along with others, have been hard on these parents. I thought it a good tool to draw them out. They’ve deserved a lot of it. They also deserve this:

  I have little doubt that, if I sat down with this group of parents (”Hear Me” included) and discussed anything but this issue, I’d find them a fine group of people. Not only energentic and passionate, but engaging as well.

  The problem really isn’t these parents. It’s something much larger.

  This blog has been talked about among my colleagues and friends. We believe this problem could have happened at any one of a dozen Bay Area high schools. Certainly at Monte Vista where, when they lose a game, the parents serenade opponents with “That’s alright, that’s OK. You’ll be working for us someday”. Obviously at Archbishop Mitty. Not only are their parents incredibly obnoxious, I’ve seen them curse their own children, and question their integrity, in a post-season tournament game. Los Gatos, where their childrens’ college choices are evaluated more on how it will look at the country club than by any other criteria? I’d be surprised if something like this hasn’t already happened there. Newark Memorial? there’s more venom in those grandstands than all the snakes & Gila Monsters in Arizona. And the list goes on.

  I grew up in the segregationist South, where every community looked upon racism as a duty and racial brutality as important discipline. Good people believed that evil was virtuons. My wonderful Dad among them. Now, that was light years worse than this problem. The analogy is culture. Both acts of racial bigotry 40 yeas ago, and over-involved parenting today, are the products of cultures which said stupid behavior was actually a sign of character.

  To a great degree, this group of parents just walked into a buzz saw.

  They became a symbol of cultural misconduct which many are fed up with. Not just educators, but employers and neighbors and cops and storekeepers and their customers are just sick to death of parents who magnify any injury to their children while obdurately defending their misconduct. Publicly accepting responsibility for their own parental failures is unheard of.

  They’ve screwed up, to be sure. But these parents have found themselves flung squarely in the crosshairs of the stereotype: parents behaving badly.

  Let me close with an encouraging note: This year, I left a program whose discipline had been gutted by the parental pressures we’ve discussed. Instead, I associated myself with our sport’s toughest program in the Bay Area. The coach is confrontational, demanding, and creates an environment of great pressure. He’s also a great teacher. His kids come from the exact same culture we’ve been discussing. Guess what? The players flourish under his system — once they get over the shell shock (chuckle). Kids today are really no different than in ay other age. They want discipline and they respond to a challenge.

  And parents today are no different than in any other age. They want what’s best for their kids. Unfortunately, they’ve overstepped proper bounds so often that authorities are tired of listening to them and no one — least of all the parents — can tell legitimate grievances from petty whining.

• fred
  Nov 18, 2006 at 9:44 pm

  “Hear Me”,

  I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. I haven’t found the time, and I’ve struggled with the proper response to you.

  You’d asked if I thought you had lied in your response to my question: “Do parents have a right to tell a coach how he/she should run a team?”

  You, “Old Friend”, “CV Merchant” and “Kimmie Too” each responded, “No”, and then went on to explain why it was alright for this group to have done exactly what you’d just said was unacceptable.

  I think each of you really doesn’t see how that is exactly what you’ve done.

  There are 3 major reasons for what appear to be parallel universes: yours, and the professionals’.

  REASON #1: A FAN’S KNOWLEDGE OF THE GAME.
  You are limited to a fan’s knowledge of sport. Some of you may have played it once, or even coached it, but that was at the less-competitive levels. Your reality is at odds with the reality of a coach who (despite possible maturity and personality issues) appears to have been trying to bring a higher level of play to your children (based on extensive college experience). The children have experienced your level, but never the coach’s. So they — and you — judge the situation by what you know.

  For instance, you have become upset by a coach who you believe has yelled at your children, locked them out of a gym for poor practice, not spoken to them for a period of time, and placed blame on them for losing. In youth sports, this conduct is usually frowned upon. At the high school and college levels, it is not only commonplace, it is effective.

  To you, it seems obvious that no reasonable coach would cut 3 players who started the previous year. To other coaches, it is perfectly reasonable under the circumstances….

  First, these seniors had started on a losing team. One reasonable choice would be to remove the core of that losing team — especially if it appeared they did not buy into the coach’s philosophy or methods. It’s pretty hard to turn around a program with people who’ve demonstrated they don’t believe in what you’re doing.

  Second, the underclassmen probably developed. Particulary among freshmen and sophonores, it isn’t that unusual to go from a jayvee nonentity to a varsity contributor in one year. Remember that Barry Sanders went from a high school non-starter to a Heisman Trophy winner in about 3 years. In this case, it would make perfect sense that younger, receptive players — even if somewhat less talented — would give the program a better long-term chance of success.

  It’s very possible that the tryout atmosphere convinced the selection committee the gulf between the coach and some of these players could not be overcome.

  REASON #2: THE BIAS OF PARENTAL LOVE
  If there’s one truism virtualy 100% of coaches would agree on, it’s that parents are constitutionally incapable of judging their children objectively.

  In 30+ years of coaching, I’ve encountered dozens upon dozens of parents coaching their children. I’ve known exactly two parents who coached the child & team well. Even accomplished professional coaches (even in NCAA or professional sports) were incapable of objectively coaching their children.

  It’s more about biology than character. The parental urge to protect and promote the child is right up there with the survival instinct. A parent, who has — almost hourly — focused on a child for over a decade, just cannot see that the child lacks the skill to achieve their goals, lacks the personality or drive to earn the desired success, or is guilty of bad conduct which will deprive the child of opportunity.

  As often as not in the Bay Area today, the parent’s judgement of his/her child’s potential and achievement border on the absurd.

  REASON #3: ASSUMING NONEXISTENT AUTHORITY
  The fruit of Reason #1 and Reason #2 is parents’ belief that they have some say in how high school teams are run. They don’t understand coaching. They can’t accurately judge their childrens’ worth. So, they’re often unhappy with the results on the field.

  Because these absurd sports clinics and traveling teams make a lot of money off them, parents have been able to demand accountability from the coaches in those programs. They’ve come to assume they have the same rights in the scholastic programs.

  What the bloggers here — and those on NorCalPreps — can’t get through their heads is that the coach is, in NO way, accountable to them.

  Both these blogs reek of that foolishness. On NorCalPreps….

  “The school has chosen to protect [Coach Nibarger] from ever answering to those she should be responsible to, the parents[.]”

  “ANY coach” should be ready to “defend their actions in a supervised forum.”

  The parents had a right to expect the coach, the athletic director, and the principal would meet their demand for a post-season meeting with the group.

  In fact, the coach IS NOT RESPONSIBLE TO THE PARENTS, doesn’t need to defend his/her conduct to parents, and has no duty to ever meet with them as a group.

  The coach doesn’t work for the parents, she/he works for the school board. The coach is accountable to the principal, who is accountable to district administrators, who are accountable to the school board. None of them is accountable to individual parents or groups of parents. Only the School Board is accountable to the public at large. The parents are a tiny slice of that public.

  Should any teacher be open to a parent’s REQUEST for an individual meeting? Of course. The same is true of principals. But the purpose is so those educators may use those meetings to more-effectively do their jobs — as THEY see fit. Parents get no vote.

  And the whole purpose of this requested group meeting was obviously to give you some leverage with the coach. You wanted to take the coach to task in front of her superiors. You wanted promises that things would change.

  Do parents have legitimate private interests? Of course. Should they formally pursue legitimate interests if private, informal efforts fail? Sure.

  But the parents don’t get to decide which complaints are legitimate, or the forum in which they’ll be presented.

  The truth, “Hear Me”, is that you folks obviously tried to influence the coach in an inappropriate way.

  When you pushed it too far and found yourselves covered in something that sure doesn’t SMELL like glory, you began to invent justifications.

  CV Merchant’s statement that he had a right to intervene when players’ safety is at stake is as transparent as a pane of glass. The injured girl’s mother apparently allowed the child to play (which is between the parent the school, but none of CV Merchant’s business). The hue and cry about locking the players out of the gym is just plain whining. The players were angered — undoubtedly the coach’s intent — but they weren’t harmed.

  I’m certain some of your complaints were legitimate. But they certainly didn’t justify your response. The coach made her errors. (Her conduct toward her predecessor appears to be one.) But the parents had no authority to require changes. That’s the root of your problems.

  Truthfully, I wish you peace. To achieve it, you’re going to have to examine what you should have done differently. Continue to encourage your children to achieve. But be mindful that they’ve reached the age where you will never again be able to control the outcome.

  Best,

  Fred

• Kimmie, too.
  Nov 18, 2006 at 11:26 pm

  “The coach doesn’t work for the parents, she/he works for the school board.”

  Helloooooo Fred, who pays the taxes that pay her salary????????
  “but this appears to be a coach who also has some growing to do.” says fred. HAVE YOU SEEN HER???? She’d better not grow any more…she is a PE teacher and supposed to be a role model.

  You people have NO idea what has happened. She cut her FINAL senior this morning. A senior that had played for her as a team captain. A Senior that played the last 2 years on varsity. as well. A senior that played 32 minutes out of 32 minutes. OK, t