Parents Behaving Badly

42 opinions for Daughter Dies Due to AIDS after Mom Refuses HIV Medications

• Angel
  Sep 26, 2005 at 9:43 am

  This isn’t the first time that Dr. Gordon has given horrible medical advice. His medical ethics are shady, at best.

• momma2mingbu
  Sep 26, 2005 at 11:11 am

  Wow. I’m a big fan of both Gordon & Fleiss - I’ve heard them both speak at conferences. Will be following this story for sure.

• Ann Adams
  Sep 26, 2005 at 1:36 pm

  Takes me back to Elizabeth Glaser who moved heaven and earth to keep her child and herself alive. She didn’t succeed but not for lack of trying. Her book, “In the Absence of Angels”, was one of the bravest and saddest I’ve ever read.

  If you have pet theories, fine, but using your child as a guinea pig for no treatment at all? I have one friend who has survived since the early 80’s and still hanging in there. He’s onboard for every new treatment that comes out.

  I’ve also attended too many AIDS related memorial services but never one for a child. This death was unnecessary.

• L.
  Sep 26, 2005 at 4:15 pm

  The mother said at the end of the article: “Why our child — so appreciated, so held, so carefully nurtured — and not one ignored, abused or abandoned?” she wrote. “How come what we offered was not enough to keep her here when children with far less — impatient distracted parents, a small apartment on a busy street, extended day care, Oscar Mayer Lunchables — will happily stay?”

  Is it just me, or did she fail to mention anything lethal in the last part there? Poor woman — AZT might have prevented this. But I guess that to her, giving it to her daughter would have been as unthinkable as giving her a Lunchable.

• sally
  Sep 26, 2005 at 8:25 pm

  This is just too hard to believe!

• Riss
  Sep 27, 2005 at 10:31 am

  She and those doctors should be held accountable for their actions (or rather, inaction). Such a beautiful little girl. It’s horrible.

• kyle
  Oct 9, 2005 at 10:16 pm

  Will you people wake up, Christine was diagnosed
  HIV pos then neg ,then indeterminate.Her son and
  husband are both neg. Eliza was cleared of a chest infection by three doctors, she only got
  sick when she took anti-biotics.
  If you read the history of the science behind Hiv
  you might understand where she is coming from.

  By the way Eliza was never tested for Hiv so how
  did they presume she was.

• Lisa
  Oct 21, 2005 at 11:17 am

  I am willing to initally believe that publishing this article as you did was simply a knee jerk reaction on your part, but please do your research before you flippantly point someone out as a bad parent in a situation like this.

  Please be informed that the main stream media does not always tell you the whole story and that if you are going to be taken seriously and be informed you have to research more than one news source to get to the truth of the matter.

  I am listing an article for you to start your research into this matter, if you so choose.

  If not, you could simply hope that this post stays buried and you never have to own up to the fact that you published this article before doing proper research.

  Either way, the choice to do better reporting and not just type up something quickly to fill space on a page is yours.

  Here is the link to the artice I mentioned:

  Hit and Run article

  Note that her lungs were found to be clear and that a full month later after finding no cause of death the coroner, after realizing the Elia’s mother was HIV positive in 1992 ruled the cause of death to be AIDS related pneumonia. Her older brother, although breast fed is HIV negative and so is Christine’s husband.

  Also note that no one is questioning why the child died directly after taking the antibiotic amoxicillian.

  There is alot of other info out there on this situation.

  Please make yourself more aware and informed and do not simply grab a news headline from the LA Times ( yes you linked the story from Yahoo, but it originally appeared in the LA times) and publish it as hard based fact and truth without first researching that of which you speak.

  Pointing out truly sick and twisted parents who abuse their children is one thing. I admire the work you do here for that reason. However, simply rehashing the latest article you find just to have something to write about without proper research is irresponsible.

• Ella
  Oct 25, 2005 at 10:59 am

  The science behind HIV=AIDS is not only irrefutable but is even stronger than the science for Polio virus=Polio and most of the other illnesses we take for granted.

  Christine Maggiore is in the habit of taking one medical study that leaves room for doubt but ignores the hundreds that are iron clad. Ultimately, she believes what she needs to believe and digs long and hard until she finds some shred of doubt that she can pin her entire life on.

  Eliza Jane died of PCP and that is not an illness that an HIV negative child dies of. You can’t dig your head in the sand about that.

  How does a kid who was raised in a loving “organic” setting die of PCP?! (hint: HIV infection)

  If any of you denialists have strong peer-reviewed scientific studies that refute the HIV=AIDS connection, please post the link. Otherwise, go back to sleep.

• Ella
  Oct 25, 2005 at 11:09 am

  As for her HIV negative son and husband….so what?! What’s your point “Lisa?” The medical establishment states repeatedly that 75% of infants born to HIV positive women are born free from the virus. Additionally, discordant couples are not a rarity, they’re common.

  And the complete BULL you’re insinuating with the Amoxicillan is pathetic! Per her own mother, that kid had taken the antibiotics for 2 days prior to her collapse. Read up on allergic reactions Lisa! Anaphylaxis does not take two days, it takes one dose!

  Now get back to the aliens-are-among-us sites for your fill of these ridiculous conspiracy theories. Whatever you can’t face in life doesn’t automatically demand you construct a massive, planet-wide conspiracy theory to explain it.

  Your denial is far more toxic than HIV itself. Pathetic, you truly are.

• Hanna
  Oct 25, 2005 at 7:11 pm

  Consider these FACTS:

  For the HIV conspiracy theorists like Christine Maggiore to be correct, the following must also be true:

  1) 99.9% of the virologists on the planet are either lying or completely wrong about the science supporting HIV=AIDS
  2) 99.9% of AIDS clinicians on the planet are either lying or completely wrong about their experiences with the manifestations of HIV disease in their patients
  3) 100% of the published, peer-reviewed cohort studies that provide irrefutable evidence that drug users, hemophiliacs, the sexually promiscuous, the malnourished, the stressed, etc. ONLY the HIV+ individuals developed life-threatening, AIDS-defining opportunistic infections while the HIV negative individuals never did - all of those studies were run by hundreds of thousands of scientists, physicians, assistants and patients who all lied or were completely wrong about their findings.
  4) The entire HIV/AIDS is a hoax on the planet that potentially billions of people are a part of. This number would include patients, physicians, virologists, other biological scientists, HIV/AIDS organizations around the globe, every single government health agency on the planet, every single pharmaceutical company, every single reporter and media outlet - all of the people in the aforementioned groups would have to be party to this collective, magnificent lie.

  I cannot fathom the terror in the denialists that must exist for them to prefer believing a global conspiracy of such implausible and dynamic proportions exists over an illness that, albeit unwanted, is manageable when treated appropriately.

• Hanna
  Oct 25, 2005 at 7:13 pm

  Consider these FACTS:

  For the HIV conspiracy theorists like Christine Maggiore to be correct, the following must also be true:

  1) 99.9% of the virologists on the planet are either lying or completely wrong about the science supporting HIV=AIDS
  2) 99.9% of AIDS clinicians on the planet are either lying or completely wrong about their experiences with the manifestations of HIV disease in their patients
  3) 100% of the published, peer-reviewed cohort studies that provide irrefutable evidence that drug users, hemophiliacs, the sexually promiscuous, the malnourished, the stressed, etc. ONLY the HIV+ individuals developed life-threatening, AIDS-defining opportunistic infections while the HIV negative individuals never did - all of those studies were run by hundreds of thousands of scientists, physicians, assistants and patients who all lied or were completely wrong about their findings.
  4) The entire HIV/AIDS is a hoax on the planet that potentially billions of people are a part of. This number would include patients, physicians, virologists, other biological scientists, HIV/AIDS organizations around the globe, every single government health agency on the planet, every single pharmaceutical company, every single reporter and media outlet - all of the people in the aforementioned groups would have to be party to this collective, magnificent lie.

  I cannot fathom the terror in the denialists that must exist for them to prefer believing a global conspiracy of such implausible and dynamic proportions exists over an illness that, albeit unwanted, is manageable when treated appropriately.

• Ifeverybodyjumpedoffacliffwouldyou
  Nov 1, 2005 at 2:22 pm

  Boy, you people really jump to conclusions. One would think you lived with Ms. Maggiore and her child for their whole lives and are intimately familar with all the details of their household. Surely, you didn’t just get all of your information second hand from journalists at the LA Times.
  Critical thinkers you all are. Pat yourselves on the back!

• Jay Allen
  Nov 1, 2005 at 2:31 pm

  One would think you lived with Ms. Maggiore and her child for their whole lives

  So you have more information? You know the reported info to be incorrect? Or are you just being an asshole?

• Ifeverybodyjumpedoffacliffwouldyou
  Nov 1, 2005 at 3:16 pm

  Jay,
  There is certainly more information available on this story that comes directly from the family themselves and people close to them, but the folks on this Web site are in no mood to be rational. They have already tried and hanged Ms. Maggiore so any evidence or alternative account that she may have herself would surely be ignored or dismissed by The Parents behaving Badly Jury since they all see her as being in “denial” or “delusional,” although none of them seem to know her personally.

  If you’d like “more information” directly from the mother herself regarding this TRAGEDY, you can go directly to her Web site and read her updates on the situation at http://www.aliveandwell.org

  For an even more detailed synopsis of this tragedy from the perspective of critical thinkers NOT rolling away with their tongues wagging and heads sticking out of the bandwagon headed towards the cliff, you can see A Chronology of the Eliza jane Scovill Story here: http://www.aras.ab.ca/ej.html

  It boggles the mind how people jump on bandwagons without knowing what they are talking about.

• Tony
  Nov 2, 2005 at 5:14 pm

  Has it occured to you that Ms. Maggiore has a HUGE vested interest in, ehem, lying? Her very freedom is currently at stake. She and her husband are being investigated by the LA County Prosecutor’s office for negligence that led to the death of her child. If that doesn’t give her tremendous incentive to color the “facts” surrounding Eliza Jane’s condition prior to her death, what does?

  Furthermore, this woman has built an empire of denialists. It’s not like she can easily denounce a decade worth of harmful rhetoric now. Have you done any research (other than this pathetic pandering) on how many ex-dissidents hate her? Do you know how many of them have faulted her for creating such intellectual confusion in desperate people that they have fallen gravely ill and nearly lost their lives only to be later told that it was stress and poor nutrition that caused them to nearly die from an infection that only afflicts people with a shattered immune system?

  No, I’m sure you don’t because you’re too busy sucking up to the denialists for your own agenda.

  Go do some homework and get educated about the FACTS and not the load of crap the denialists are feeding you. I have seen some pretty gullible morons in my life but HIV+ denialists have to take the cake. They wind up in the hospital deathly ill with life threatening infections that no one else they know has ever had, they accept the “orthodox” medications to get better and then go back on the HIV is harmless bandwagon cause the HIV “establishment” is lying to everybody.

  If you really think everybody’s in on it then why the hell do you take the meds to cure you of PCP when you get it? Don’t you think the doctors are in on that too? Why do you believe you have PCP? Just go home and treat yourself with some herbs since they are all a bunch of money grubbing liars, right?

  HIV/AIDS Denialists=Hypocritical idiots with no conviction whatsoever!

• Angela
  Nov 3, 2005 at 7:02 am

  Tony,
  I’ll admit there seem to be holes in the dissidents arguments at first glance, but your comments are nonsensical and lunatic at best.

• Katy
  Nov 4, 2005 at 4:01 am

  There is no greater lunacy than HIV+ people developing fatal infections otherwise unseen in the HIV- population and using their last breath to weakly say “HIV doesn’t exist”.

  David Pasquerelli developed PCP and then CMV of the gut after years of fevent belief that AVR’s were killers and HIV didn’t exist. A young man died for absolutely no logical reason at all, other than blind ideals with NO science in support.

  Now that’s lunacy!

• Angela
  Nov 4, 2005 at 6:40 am

  And what of the hundreds of people who, feeling perfectly healthy and having no physical symptoms of a fatal disease, walk into doctor’s offices across the country, come out with an HIV diagnosis, get started on drugs that have no claims whatsoever of curing the disease, and proceed to have all sorts of horrible, grotesque, side affects show up in their bodies and then proceed to die slow painful deaths? And all the while medical professionals saying “Well, they would’ve died sooner if not for the drugs. The drugs prolonged their life.”

  I’d rather live a short life feeling good up until the end than to live a longer stigmatized one in misery, physical pain until the “inevitable” demise.

  Now that’s lunacy!

  Katy, you seem to miss the point that a person’s life is his/her own. People have choices. In other countries or societies, people raise their children with values and ideals and philosophies and traditions that I may think are dangerous or life-threatening or bizarre, but that doesn’t give me a right to go and demand that they be “brought to justice” or thrown in jail. If you don’t agree with their choices, fine. But no one needs you to preach to them about their blind ideals.

  Take care of your own house and get your own life straight and stop being the medicine police on the witch hunt for “dissidents.” Quite simply, get a life.

• Katy
  Nov 5, 2005 at 7:03 am

  Oh really Angela, “beakon of wisdom”?!

  So I suppose as a civilized society we should just allow people to deny their children from sound medical care because of their various religious beliefs too.

  If a Jehovah’s witness’s kid gets into a car accident and needs a few pints of life saving blood then everyone should let the kid die cause mama’s religion says it’s wrong. Five years later good old mama decides to follow Christianity and the only net effect is one dead kid who, unfortunately, didn’t get injured when his mama was into her new religion or he’d be alive.

  Or how about the parents whose daughter died because they only fed her raw foods and she couldn’t digest them well and was emaciated when her heart stopped from lack of nutrition. Those parents believe in a strict vegan uncooked lifestyle. So we should just allow people to essentially starve their children to death over their beliefs, right?

  Or a parent might decide that meditation will cure a ruptured appendix.

  Yeah, you make a lot of sense Angela! You’re clearly a rocket scientist.

  God help your kids, that much is clear!

• Angela
  Nov 7, 2005 at 6:40 am

  Katy,
  You are an irrational, nervous mess. Seek help.

• Katy
  Nov 7, 2005 at 3:56 pm

  And you are a juvenille idiot. Seek intelligence.

• tina
  Nov 8, 2005 at 6:21 am

  If meds are taken there is no “inevitable demise” anymore, let alone any major side effects. People can lead totally normal lives. It seems like admitting they have HIV is the most painful side effect for these people.

• Katy
  Nov 8, 2005 at 4:31 pm

  Bravo for the very accurate statement Tina!

  Absolutely true. In the name of those I knew who died of AIDS before AZT, people who had no choice but to watch their immune system dwindle down to worthless while desperately trying to regain their health. In the name of those not lucky enough to be infected after HAART, I refuse to stand by and watch the uninformed deniers turn their heads in foolhardiness.

  I will speak out for my friends who didn’t get the chance and for a little girl, Eliza Jane, from the dangerous beliefs of her parents. May she be the last child to die of AIDS in a world that knows better and in a country lucky enough to afford better.

  For the other parents out there that don’t believe HIV is a harmful virus, rethink your position long and hard before subjecting your own child to an early grave needlessly. Finding out afterwards you were wrong is too great a price for your child to pay, and for you as well.

• Brian
  Nov 9, 2005 at 6:38 am

  Here here!

  All stand and give offering at the altar in the Church of Katy Modern Day Saint!

  here here!

• Katy
  Nov 9, 2005 at 4:12 pm

  Brian, you’re one of the denialist savants, aren’t you? Come on, don’t try to hide it.

• kyle
  Nov 14, 2005 at 7:07 pm

  I think there will be a report out soon ruling out
  PCP as the cause of Eliza Jane’s death.
  Nothing to do with AIDS at all.

• Katy
  Nov 15, 2005 at 7:04 pm

  PCP in a 3 year old otherwise healthy kid is most definitely HIV/AIDS-related.

• kyle
  Nov 15, 2005 at 8:35 pm

  An independent report has found that the cause
  of death was not defintely not PCP, this is what
  the original coroner’s report stated and was only
  changed when the coroner found out that the mother had once tested postive to HIV.
  Its sounds as if the report was changed for political purposes.

• Katy
  Nov 17, 2005 at 6:26 am

  Hey Kyle, do you have any evidence of this outright lie by the coroner regarding cause of death or is this just another bomb the denialists throw without an ounce of substantiation, because there isn’t any, and cry “mass conspiracy” when they can’t prove it.

  Get yourself a real existence before you spend your entire life wrapped up in a ridiculous fantasy.

• kyle
  Nov 17, 2005 at 12:53 pm

  I suppose you have read Christine Maggiore’s reply on her website aliveandwell.org
  Why when someone has no argument they have to get personal.
  Again Eliza was cleared of any lung disorder by the coroner in his initial report , he only changed it when he was told that Christine once tested postive to Hiv.
  I will let you know when the second report is posted by David Crowe or Christine on her web site.

• Angela
  Nov 18, 2005 at 9:19 am

  Katy,

  Here’s the pathologist’s report.

  http://www.aras.ab.ca/ej.html

  It’s at the very bottom (November 16th update)

  The doctor who prepared this report is notable for being an expert medical witness in numerous trials where parents have been falsely accused of “murdering” their children when in fact the children were later determined to have died from SIDS or other sudden, inexplicable causes…many believe that a lot of these infants died of adverse affects to immunizations or other medical treatments or formulas.

  Katy, all I can say is that you are a very fanatical person. You obviously know very little about this mother, this family, or their pain, and yet you take it upon yourself to sit in judgement of her and lambast anyone who would dare have the nerve to think before speaking and accusing.

  I truly feel sorry for you. You seem like a very angry, crazy person.

• ThedemononKatysshoulder
  Nov 18, 2005 at 1:30 pm

  Katy reminds me of the psycho-Christian Mom on the episode of “Trading Spouses” that aired on Fox a few weeks ago, and was the butt of all the late night talk show hosts’ jokes. This God-fearing maniacal woman was switched with a family who subscribed to “New Age” beliefs like astrology and solstice parties and threw up in their yard because she supposedly smelled something wicked in their kitchen. The show ended with the morbidly obese Christian woman rebuking in the name of Jesus the film crew and all “dark-sided” people who subscribed to any unholy or alternative viewpoints . Scary stuff, but fascinating.

• The Dark Side
  Nov 18, 2005 at 9:16 pm

  Yeah,
  Talk about a mom who needs her children taken away. I wonder why Katy isn’t trying to get this woman arrested?

  http://www.break.com/articles/tradingspouses2.html

• Katy
  Nov 20, 2005 at 4:33 pm

  Angela, you suggest 99% of the entire HIV/AIDS establishment has been perpetrating a homicidal lie on the planet without a shred of evidence and I’m crazy? Interesting. Let me tell you a little story about a pot and a kettle.

  I’ve thought about it, really. And I do sincerely think you’re a babbling idiot, irrefutably evidenced on this page.

  Eliza Jane died from PCP - that was the ironclad report from the coroner.

  Christine Maggiore has a great deal at stake - in other words, her reasons to stick to her ridiculous fantasies about HIV/AIDS at this point are stronger than ever (ehem…police investigation, jail time, negligent homicide).

  If Eliza Jane’s cause of death was going to be disputed, maybe Christine shouldn’t have chosen a long-time denialist quack for a review of the pathology report. She might have sent the labs and report to another medical examiner, even one outside the state. Why didn’t she just have Duesberg, Mullis, Crowe, The Perth Group, “Angela” and “Kyle” perform the post mortem. That would have been really objective, yeah, yeah, that’s right. Angela, your utter lack of reasoning ability is sad and pathetic.

  Tell you what Angela, if you promise to seek help for your fantasies and your embarrassing lack of biological knowledge, not to mention your flagrant stupidity and blind passion for implausible worldwide conspiracy theories, I’ll reconsider my tone.

  In the meantime, you really are a mental midget. If being honest about that makes me too emotional, then fine - guilty as charged. That still doesn’t change the fact that you exhibit no higher brain function. Truly, you don’t.

• ThedemononKatysshoulder
  Nov 26, 2005 at 6:50 pm

  *Yawn*

• David
  Dec 6, 2005 at 9:26 am

  The death of Christine Maggiore’s daughter was either gross incompetence or outright murder, to make Maggiore look “wrong”.

  If it was murder, it was committed to publicly smear the reputation of the most powerful witness to the scam of HIV = AIDS. If it was murder, it was done so that the medical examiner could testify that Maggiore’s daughter died of AIDS, thus crushing the movement against HIV = AIDS.

  And yes, the medical industry would go that far. Big business goes that far all the time. Almost all huge corporations only care about money, and human life really doesn’t mean much at all to them.

  The public has been brainwashed by the religion of big medicine and big pharmaceuticals. The people are so desperate for something to worship that they will eagerly declare their mindless obedience to big medicine, no matter how much big medicine messes up their lives.

• Katy
  Dec 10, 2005 at 8:56 pm

  David honey, there is a big shiny bridge for sale. Interested?

  Don’t get your little tights in a twist. There is no conspiracy here. Simple case of delusional parent who failed her child and the kid died. It’s not the first time and, sadly, not the last. Hell, it’s not even that original. No “Big Pharma” needed - this stuff happens too often already.

  By the way, do you have some magic bullet ironclad bit of evidence to present. If not, why don’t you take your hysterical antics, shove them where the sun doesn’t shine and pour yourself a glass of wine. Because another baseless melodramatic soap-opera-worthy fabrication is really the last thing anyone wants to hear.

  Oh, and the next time you have an infection of any kind, DO NOT subscribe to western medicine “David.” Stay away from the “evil” drugs of Big Pharma. Otherwise, you’re just a hypocritical whore lacking in any conviction whatsoever.

• Katie
  Feb 10, 2006 at 8:03 pm

  I will probably get called an idiot for this, but I’ve been called worse so I’ll be ok :)
  I ran across this link http://www.altheal.org/toxicity/orphans.htm
  Since I am not in Christine’s predicament (sp) I can only speak hypothetically and without further research but - I would test for the HIV but I wouldn’t treat it with the drugs. Herbally, and with good food..But, since I’m going to die anyways, I’d rather do it peacefully and on my own terms living the fullest life in the process - not one where my schedule is made up of what time to take what pill etc. That’s death with dignity in my humble opinion.

• Katie
  Feb 10, 2006 at 8:09 pm

  David, to avoid becoming a whore as Katy mentioned - make some Goldenseal tincture. I haven’t had to go to a western dr. in years b/c this is what I take for infections. :) Works just as well as any RX. Sometimes people fail to see all the harm technology has ‘gifted’ us.

• Stephanie
  Feb 20, 2006 at 5:52 pm

  Katie:

  Suggesting your cure-all Goldenseal tincture would be a good treatment for HIV/AIDS illustrates just how clueless you are regarding this serious illness.

  It’s about as stupid and senseless as coming face to face with a serial killer and slapping him in the face as a means of “fighting back.”

  Grow up!

  Your cute little home remedies don’t do a better job “curing” your infections than your own body does. Next time you have one, hop three times in place and the infection will be gone in a week. Get it, Miss Brilliant? The infection will be gone on its own in that amount of time.

  An absent immune system creates life threatening infections, not an open sore on your finger, not a mild bladder infection.

  Honestly, why don’t you feed your Goldenseal concoction to a cancer patient? God, what the hell is this world facing with people just like you making ridiculous statements without a shred of rationale or perspective whatsoever.

  Morons, the whole lot of you!

• Robo
  Feb 23, 2006 at 7:09 am

  Eliza was treated for an ear infection and put on antibiotics, and one of the possible side effects of amoxicillin commonly used to treat ear infections, a rare, but possible one, is a strong fatal reaction. BTW, it was the second coroner’s report that said she died of Aids related pneumonia. So her death may not be AIDS related at all. But then, if you’re relying on the Times for your resources… I‘d also like to point out that AZT is not the drug of choice for treating children with HIV positive status. It’s toxicity is well known and you won‘t see too many Gay HIV positive men taking it, and the fact that children are still being treated with it is far more alarming than Maggiore‘s decision to forgo treatment.

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